Mr. Daniels.

Let me see about that.

Mr. Hubert.

Even though there were some people on the other side of the ramp?

Mr. Daniels.

Yes; there was three or four on the other side.

Mr. Hubert.

How long before Oswald was shot, and I think you did hear the shot?

Mr. Daniels.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

How long before Oswald was shot did you get to position No. 17

Mr. Daniels.

I would say 20 or 25 minutes.

Mr. Hubert.

And then, how long were you in position No. 3 before he was shot, in the area of No. 37

Mr. Daniels.

Well, let me see---almost the same, because I had just came over here and looked and immediately walked back over here I would say no time.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, you came from your car to position 1 and took a quick look and went to the area of No. 3 ?

Mr. Daniels.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And you stayed there until the shot was fired, and you think it was about 20 minutes later?

Mr. Daniels.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember a car coming up the ramp?

Mr. Daniels.

I do.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know Lt Rio Pierce?

Mr. Daniels.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you recognize him driving the car?

Mr. Daniels.

I don't remember whether he was driving or not, there were four officers in there and he was the only one I recognized right off.

Mr. Hubert.

There were four in there you say?

Mr. Daniels.

Two in the front and two in the back.

Mr. Hubert.

Who were the others ?

Mr. Daniels.

I didn't really get a good look at them but I knew him, but I got a better look at him than I did the rest of them.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he see you---did he show any signs of recognition to you?

Mr. Daniels.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

How long before the shooting did that occur?

Mr. Daniels.

Let's see, I would say 3 or 4 minutes. Now, I have been thoroughly confused on this because down at the police department they tell me one thing and it gets my mind all confused.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, what we want is not what somebody else told you, but what you, yourself can best remember today.

Mr. Daniels.

Here's what struck me---when I saw the car come out, I was thinking--I guess they are fixing to bring Oswald out now, maybe, because they are coming out to set up a guard, and they pulled on out and I remember watching the car until they got to Harwood and Main, and then I stopped looking at it and I didn't pay any attention to where it went or anything, and then I kind of looked back down in there from where I was standing near the ramp there.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, when the car came out, what did Vaughn do ?

Mr. Daniels.

Vaughn walked out to the street to hold up traffic, because they were coming out the wrong way. They don't normally come out that way and he was going out to hold up traffic and let them get through.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he get beyond the sidewalk so that he was actually out in the street?

Mr. Daniels.

I think he walked out in the street.

Mr. Hubert.

How far into the street ?

Mr. Daniels.

That would be hard to say but I wasn't paying that much attention, but he walked out into the street--he didn't get beyond the center of the street, but he walked out in there.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, he left position No. 2 and went to a position we will call No. 4 by a circle, and I will just write in there "approximate position of Vaughn when Rio Pierce's car drove out," and when I say "approximate," I am understanding you to say that you are not sure how far into the street