Mr. Cutchshaw.

AS far as doing anything wrong?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, you act--

Mr. Cutchshaw.

The way you are talking is that I am concerned that I think we have done something wrong. I don't think there is one wrongdoing, as far as the officers are concerned and what happened down there. I didn't think like that.
Departmental wise or individualwise, there are things pro and con of what should have happened and what shouldn't have happened. One way of looking, there shouldn't have been any news media, and maybe they shouldn't have been spread out that way, but we would have caught the dickens that way. And, as I heard, Chief Curry had the okay from a little higher up to go ahead and have the news media, and it didn't turn out too good. But as far as wrongdoings, there is not one wrong thing that happened as far as our department is concerned.

Mr. Griffin.

How about Lowery? Are you much of a friend with Lowery?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

We ride to work together and run around a bit together.

Mr. Griffin.

How friendly are you with Harrison?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

We are good friends, but as far as running around, he lives way over in Pleasant Grove, and I live in Grand Prairie. It is way across town, so we don't get around together.

Mr. Griffin.

Lowery had seen Ruby. Did Lowery know Ruby?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Did he recognize Ruby before?

Mr. Griffin.

He had seen Ruby on a number of occasions, actually, didn't he before ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

You mean before this happened?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I tell you the truth, I really don't know. I think he said he knew him, or seen him around, but as far as actual standing there, I don't know.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see Captain King in the basement at any time prior to the shooting?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, now, that I don't remember whether I saw him down there prior to the shooting or whether it was after. There was a whole bunch of officers down there, and, man, I do remember a few immediately right there, and someone that came out the door, because I was right there and watched them as they came out.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, now, if you and Captain King had been standing together and you both saw Ruby and you both knew Ruby, what would you do?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, now, you mean if we saw him come into the basement, or if we saw him standing there?

Mr. Griffin.

Saw him standing down there and you were both standing there together ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, that is something that is pretty hard to say, honestly, because the basement is supposed to be secured when we went down there.
In other words, everybody that wasn't supposed to be there, was supposed to be out, and they had officers checking them coming in, and me not knowing Ruby, I probably wouldn't have known him if I had been shown him on the street.

Mr. Griffin.

If you knew Ruby and you both were standing there, if you knew him and you and Captain King were standing there, and you knew Captain King was looking at him

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I would have tried to find out what he was doing, knowing he wasn't a newsman or couldn't have a news pass.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you have deferred to Captain King or any other superior officer? Would you let him take the initiative on

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I would have asked him myself if I had seen him, because that is what we were down there for.

Mr. Griffin.

What I am trying to get at, and the only reason I use Captain King--I could have used Chief Batchelor or anybody like that, but my point is, that if a Junior officer like you and a senior officer were standing together,