[Drawing a circle and indicating it number "7."]
Captain TALBERT. Compared with the other, yes. And Chief Batchelor was Standing just to the left front of the vehicle, and--I can't draw it in there with this circle correctly, but we'll indicate that "18," Capt. O. A. Jones was standing to my left, or to the rear of the vehicle from me. Indicating that to be "19," and at the time that vehicle was attempting to back up, we had pushed them back far enough for it to maneuver. At the time it was attempting to back up, there was a muffled report, a muffled shot and bedlam broke out in the vicinity of the jail office entry into the ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see the shot?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir; I heard it, but did not see, the shot and that there was my first knowledge that the prisoner was in the ramp area.

Mr. Hubert.

Which way were you facing just before the shot?
Captain TALBERT. Just before the shot, I was facing the crowd. I had faced, alternately, the automobile and the crowd, as we were attempting to get the thing back, and I was facing the crowd and could feel the automobile pushing against me, I was turning around and pushing back against the car, and as I made a little room, faced the crowd again and pushed them back.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see Lieutenant Pierce's car leave?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir; I didn't see Lieutenant Pierce's car leave, because of the news media across "Area A." They screened it from me and also because of my preoccupation of getting these two plain cars up behind the armored vehicle.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know Ruby ?
Captain TALBERT. I know his face. I know his name. I know his reputation well. I don't know him personally.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you ever met him before?
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see him that day?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

I mean after the shot?
Captain TALBERT. After the shot, yes, sir. I'm sorry. After the shot, or after this muffled report, I went over the back of the trunk of this automobile we were trying to back in. Because of these people pushing in I couldn't get--so, I went over the back trunk of it to get to the officers. I saw they were down, and the melee that was taking place, as news media was crowding around in on them, and I give them a little room, and saw both Oswald and another man there who was being dragged into the jail office by the other officer. As soon as we got some room for them to drag them in, I shouted to the top of the entrance both on Commerce and on Main--this may not give you the perspective scope correctly, but it is about 90 feet on--from the place of the shooting to the Main Street entrance. I shouted up to the entrance, "let nobody out," or "nobody out," or something to that effect, and shouted to the top past the armored car the same thing. "Nobody out," and officers on this door told them, "Nobody out," and then went into the jail office, and Ruby was lying on the jail office floor where with the officers at the time, attempting to handcuff him, as I recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you recognize him at that point?
Captain TALBERT. I saw his face. That I recognized, but I didn't recognize him as "Ruby." I asked a question, and may I say this in front of the young lady? I have to apologize. Do you want it verbatim?

Mr. Hubert.

Yes. I'm afraid so.
Captain TALBERT. I asked the question--I said, "Who is this son-of-a-bitch?" And he was saying, "I'm Jack Ruby. Everybody knows me. I'm Jack Ruby." At the same time another officer, or perhaps to answer that--"That's Jack Ruby, he operates the Carousel Club."

Mr. Hubert.

That was when you first recognized him?
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

As being someone that you knew ?
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

You had not seen him prior to that time on that day, to your knowledge ?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir, nor for 2 years prior to that, to my knowledge.

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