Mr. Thornley.

whatsoever. I don't think you can call a man an extreme leftist. rightist, or middle-of-the-roader and have him classified that simply.

Mr. Jenner.

Do you have any brothers and sisters?

Mr. Thornley.

I have two brothers.

Mr. Jenner.

What do they do?

Mr. Thornley.

They go to, one of them goes to junior college, I believe, and the other one goes to high school. They are in Whittier, Calif.

Mr. Jenner.

Are your folks alive?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

What does your father do?

Mr. Thornley.

He is a photoengraver.

Mr. Jenner.

Let's get back to Oswald. Describe this individual to me. First describe him physically.

Mr. Thornley.

Physically, I would say he was slightly below average height. Had, as I recall, gray or blue eyes. Always had. or almost always had a petulant expression on his face. Pursed-up lip expression, either a frown or a smile, depending on the circumstances. Was of average build, and his hair was brown, and tending to., like mine, tending to bald a little on each side.

Mr. Jenner.

Above the temple. What would you say he weighed?

Mr. Thornley.

I Would say he weighed about 140 pounds, maybe 130.

Mr. Jenner.

How tall was he?

Mr. Thornley.

I would say he was about five-five maybe. I don't know.

Mr. Jenner.

How tall are you?

Mr. Thornley.

I am five-ten.

Mr. Jenner.

Was he shorter than you?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

What habits did he have with respect to his person--was he neat, clean?

Mr. Thornley.

Extremely sloppy.

Mr. Jenner.

Extremely sloppy?

Mr. Thornley.

He was. This I think might not have been true of him in civilian life.

Mr. Jenner.

You don't know one way or the other?

Mr. Thornley.

No; but I do have reason to believe that it wasn't true of him in civilian life because it fitted into a general personality pattern of his: to do whatever was not wanted of him, a recalcitrant trend in his personality.

Mr. Jenner.

You think it was deliberate?

Mr. Thornley.

I think it tended to be deliberate: yes. It was a gesture of rebellion on his part.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever discuss that matter with him, as dress.

Mr. Thornley.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

The attitude of rebellion?

Mr. Thornley.

No; because this attitude of rebellion was a fairly common thing in the service.

Mr. Jenner.

On the part of others as well as Oswald?

Mr. Thornley.

As well as Oswald. Oswald did carry it to--was the most extreme example I can think of stateside. However, overseas, in the outfit he had been in before, as I discovered later, this was quite common. Mr. JENNER. How much later?

Mr. Thornley.

Three months--well, immediately, as soon as I left, as soon as I got overseas. I walked in to the barracks on the Fourth of July over there and saw beer bottles spread all over, and some character sitting in the back of the barracks with a broken beer bottle cutting his arm, for what reason I don't remember. They found beer cans in a trash can in MACS 9 and there was a drastic investigation; so there is an indication of a difference between stateside and overseas. Oswald was typical, very typical of the outfit he had just left overseas.

Mr. Jenner.

So that it is your impression. you would say, I gather, that as of that particular time when you first knew him that he was still carrying some of his experience personal attentionwise from what he had experienced overseas?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes.