Mr. Thornley.

Yes; I would say particularly in politics and philosophy.

Mr. Jenner.

Was it those mutual interests that brought about your acquaintance with him or some other fashion?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes, sir; it was those interests. My first memory of him is that one afternoon he was sitting on a bucket out in front of a hut, an inverted bucket, with some other Marines. They were discussing religion. I entered the discussion. It was known already in the outfit that I was an atheist.
Immediately somebody pointed out to me that Oswald was also an atheist.

Mr. Jenner.

Did they point that out to you in his presence?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

What reaction did he have to that?

Mr. Thornley.

He said, "What do you think of communism?" and I said--

Mr. Jenner.

He didn't say anything about having been pointed out as being an atheist?

Mr. Thornley.

No; he wasn't offended at this at all. He was--it was done in a friendly manner, anyway, and he just said to me the first thing he said to me was with his little grin; he looked at me and he said, "What do you think of communism?" And I replied I didn't think too much of communism, in a favorable sense, and he said, "Well, I think the best religion is communism." And I got the impression at the time that he said this in order to shock. He was playing to the galleries, I felt.

Mr. Jenner.

The boys who were sitting around?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Engaged in scuttlebutt?

Mr. Thornley.

Right. He was smirking as he said this and he said it very gently. He didn't seem to be a glass-eyed fanatic by any means.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you have occasion to discuss the same subject thereafter?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

From time to time?

Mr. Thornley.

From time to time.

Mr. Jenner.

Was it reasonably frequent?

Mr. Thornley.

I would say about a half dozen times in that time period.

Mr. Jenner.

In those subsequent discussions were some of them private in the sense you were not gathered around with others?

Mr. Thornley.

Well, I don't recall us ever having a private serious discussion. A couple of times we were working together. There would be others around, not on a constant basis anyway, but coming and going, and as I recall a couple of times we were thrown together. Working together, we weren't having a serious discussion; we were joking.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you have occasion in those additional half dozen instances of discussions with him, the viewpoint you have just expressed, that is, that his initial raising of the issue was more by way of provoking or shocking those about him rather than any utterances on his part of sincerity in a belief that communism was itself a religion?

Mr. Thornley.

It became obvious to me after a while, in talking to him, that definitely he thought that communism was the best--that the Marxist morality was the most rational morality to follow that he knew of. And that communism was the best system in the world.
I still certainly wouldn't--wouldn't have predicted, for example, his defection to the Soviet Union, because once again he seemed idle in his admiration for communism. He didn't seem to be an activist.

Mr. Jenner.

Would you explain what you mean by idle in his admiration of the communistic system?

Mr. Thornley.

Well, it seemed to be theoretical. It seemed strictly a dispassionate appraisal--I did know at the time that he was learning the Russian language. I knew he was subscribing to Pravda or a Russian newspaper of some kind from Moscow. All of this I took as a sign of his interest in the subject, and not as a sign of any active commitment to the Communist ends.

Mr. Jenner.

You felt there was no devotion there. That it was somewhat of an intellectual interest, a curiosity. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me.

Mr. Thornley.

I wouldn't put it quite that weakly. While I didn't feel there

Mr. Thornley.

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