Mr. Jenner.

All right. Your brother Robert said something along these lines. You had last seen him in 19-- that was prior to this occasion, the last time you had seen him was when he was in New York City?

Mr. Pic.

Which was a little over 10 years.

Mr. Jenner.

Well, just about 10 years.

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Of course you had seen him in February 1953, I think you said.

Mr. Pic.

Right. But we walked in and he walked out.

Mr. Jenner.

But you saw him?

Mr. Pic.

Right, I had seen him for a moment.

Mr. Jenner.

He was then at that particular time in the neighborhood of 13 years of age?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, when you saw him 10 years later he was 23.

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

You noticed, did you, a material change, physically first, let's take his physical appearance?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir. Physically I noticed that.

Mr. Jenner.

What did you notice?

Mr. Pic.

He was much thinner than I had remembered him. He didn't have as much hair.

Mr. Jenner.

Did that arrest your attention? Was that a material difference? Did that strike you?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir; it struck me quite profusely.

Mr. Jenner.

What else did you notice about his physical appearance that arrested your attention?

Mr. Pic.

His face features were somewhat different, being his eyes were set back maybe, you know like in these Army pictures, they looked different than I remembered him. His face was rounder. Marilyn had described him to me when he went in the Marine Corps as having a bull neck. This I didn't notice at all. I looked for this, I didn't notice this at all, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

He seemed more slender?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

He had materially less hair?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

His eyes seemed a little sunken?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he give you the appearance of--was he taut, was he relaxed or taut, or just what appearance did he have in that connection?

Mr. Pic.

Sir, he didn't strike me as being relaxed because I was not with him.

Mr. Jenner.

You were not?

Mr. Pic.

No, sir; because of these other feelings we had developed 10 years prior to this. I wondered about how he still felt about that.

Mr. Jenner.

But nothing occurred to lead you to believe that he still remembered it vividly, or did or didn't?

Mr. Pic.

When he was introduced to my wife again he did mention that he remembered her. But other than that, he completely ignored her.

Mr. Jenner.

Was that pretty obvious?

Mr. Pic.

To her it was, sir. She mentioned it to me several times. He arrived about 2.

Mr. Jenner.

In the afternoon?

Mr. Pic.

Right; and that is when we picked him up, so I guess we ate about 3, 4 o'clock or so. And then the girls cleared off the table and they sat and had coffee and I took them out, they wanted to see my car.

Mr. Jenner.

Took who out?

Mr. Pic.

Lee and Robert both. They looked at my car.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you take Marina out with you?

Mr. Pic.

No; she stayed in the house with the girls, and we talked about cars.

Mr. Jenner.

What did he say about a car?

Mr. Pic.

I was made aware sometime during the day that he wasn't driving. Other than this--