(Testimony of Michael Ralph Paine)
Mr. Liebeler.
Can you reconstruct the thoughts that you had at the time You were in Washington?
Mr. Paine.
I think my thoughts then were brief and they certainly are now. I thought it was a very spur of the moment idea that came into his head when he realized that he would have the opportunity with sort of a duck blind there, an opportunity to change the course of history, even though he couldn't predict from that action what course history would take, that in my opinion would not have deterred him from doing it. I thought that he was of the mind that something small or evolutionary changes were never going to be of any effect. It had to be, though he never revealed to me what kind of actions or policies he would have advocated or did advocate or did want to see I had frequently had the impression that it was--it had to be of a rather drastic nature, where kindness or good feelings should not stand in the way of those actions.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he ever discuss with you his notion of how society ought to be structured?
Mr. Paine.
Yes--he did discuss them but not in a way--did he ever describe anything that could be real. It was more a way that society should not be structured, that he talked about. Now, I shouldn't really say that--it was a negative description of how society should not be, and I never did get a description of what he would like or what one of a more positive nature would be like.
Mr. Liebeler.
You had the feeling that whatever it was, if in fact he had a notion about it, would have required a drastic and sudden change?
Mr. Paine.
Well, I don't know about the suddeness but he assumed that the society was all tied together, the church and the power structure and our education was all the same vile system and therefore there would have to be an overthrow of the whole thing. Just how he was going to overthrow it or what he was going to overthrow toward--it was not clear to me, especially, because it was also apparent that he didn't particularly admire Russia, so I didn't--I never did get it clear in my mind what program he was going to inaugurate with his new world.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he ever tell you he had written about this subject?
Mr. Paine.
No; he didn't.
Mr. Liebeler.
And you never read any of the things he wrote?
Mr. Paine.
No; I didn't.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you know he had written about anything?
Mr. Paine.
No; if I had thought he had written about something, I would certainly have been eager to have read it.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you ever have any opinion that this man was psychologically disturbed, suffering from personality disturbances and neurosis or psycho-sis-you pick it.
Mr. Paine.
No; truthfully, I should say that did not appear to be a good description. It seemed simpler and more to the point to say he was extremely bitter and couldn't believe there was much good will in people. There was mostly evil, conniving, or else stupidity--was the description--that was his opinion or would be his description of most people. That's my description, and the best description I can give of him--to call him other psychological names--names of paranoia or paranoid or something like that.
Mr. Liebeler.
What made you pick that particular name?
Mr. Paine.
Well, that kind of suspicion of people expecting them to be consciously perpetrating evil or ill toward him or toward the oppressed people-workers-is perhaps a trait of paranoia.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you think that he exhibited this trait?
Mr. Paine.
Yes; he did, but it didn't seem to be uncontrollable. He didn't generally take it--I would say he was paranoid if he always took it personally, but he always seemed to transfer it to, or put himself in the class of people who were oppressed, so that's the distinction why I wouldn't call him sick or wouldn't have then called him sick---before the assassination.
Mr. Liebeler.
Because he seemed to describe this feeling of his in institutional terms?
Mr. Paine.
That's right.
Mr. Liebeler.
And in terms of the social structure and the impact the world had on classes and groups of people?
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