Mr. Jenner.

Was it reasonably early in the course of your acquaintance with the Oswalds?

Mrs. Gibson.

I think it was before they moved to Dallas, to Oak Cliff.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever discuss the manuscript with him?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes; I did. I told him he should publish it and he said no, that it was not for people to read.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever discuss its contents with him?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes; a little bit. I asked him questions about it.

Mr. Jenner.

Can you recall any of the inquiries you made of the discussions you had with him regarding the substance of it?

Mrs. Gibson.

Well, I asked him, I believe on this manuscript that it was said that you could not move from town to town.

Mr. Jenner.

In Russia?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes; and he was telling me why.

Mr. Jenner.

What did he say?

Mrs. Gibson.

He said that the housing problem was so difficult there that once you got an apartment or a room in one city, that you had to wait in line in another city to get housing, therefore, you were not allowed to leave from one city to another unless you already had housing and a job. But for him it was easier because he was an American, and I guess as he said they were trying to impress him a little bit.

Mr. Jenner.

In that connection did he imply that he was free to move about the country as he saw fit?

Mrs. Gibson.

Freer than Russians I would imagine. He did imply that he was freer than they were.

Mr. Jenner.

To move around?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he say that he had at any time left Minsk to go anywhere else?

Mrs. Gibson.

I believe he had been to Moscow.

Mr. Jenner.

Was that in connection with his efforts to return to this country?

Mrs. Gibson.

I have no idea. I think it was just to see the countryside.

Mr. Jenner.

Would you look further through that manuscript and see if your recollection is refreshed as to any other discussion you had with him?

Mrs. Gibson.

Well, we talked a little bit about clothing and food.

Mr. Jenner.

That is a generalization. Tell me what you talked about.

Mrs. Gibson.

Well, he said that the Russian people were very impressed with his clothing, that they did not have the quality or the style that he had. Also the sparseness of fruits, vegetables there. He told them about the super-markets we had here and how plentiful fruit and vegetables were, how expensive butter and everything was in Russia, like that, your dairy products, aside from milk, butter, and cottage cheese, and all these things were extremely expensive and, well, like gold. Education we talked about, how much higher their educational standards are.

Mr. Jenner.

Than ours?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

What did he say in that connection?

Mrs. Gibson.

They are much higher, that everybody is trained there to do something. That they have what would be considered, well, like your elementary school, and after you finished this required, oh, I don't know what it is, 8 or 9 years of school, you take this test, and if you pass this test you are admitted into what is considered college. If you don't pass it, you are able to choose a vocational school that you can go to to train you in some vocation, oh, like bricklayers or electricians or plumbers or something like this. You are allowed to choose whatever you want. You hear, he said, that women are laying streets, let's say, in Russia and he said that isn't because they are made to but this is because what they have chosen to do, what they want to do. That is about the general gist of what he had to say.

Mr. Jenner.

Do you recall something about a time when little June was baptized?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes; I do.

Mr. Jenner.

Tell us about that, please.