Mrs. Gibson.

whimpered all the time. I couldn't feed her. Every time I got near her she'd scream. She never slept. She's a very difficult child to get along with. She was not at all affectionate to anybody else but to her own parents.

Mr. Jenner.

Do you think she found it strange to have anyone speak to her in English as distinguished from Russian?

Mrs. Gibson.

I don't know if it was the English. I don't believe she had ever been with anybody but her parents and I think that might have had a lot to do with it, plus she was very spoiled, very catered to by her mother and her father.

Mr. Jenner.

There were subsequent occasions when you visited the Oswalds or they visited you or Marina visited you or you visited Marina?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Drawing on the whole span of your acquaintance with the Oswalds, rather than merely those first 2 days, did you ever hear Lee Oswald address his child other than in Russian?

Mrs. Gibson.

Oh, like I said, sometimes he'd lapse into English. I imagine it was mainly for our benefit, more so than the child's. I mean normally he probably spoke to the child alone or when he was with Marina always in Russian. He never spoke English to her ever or even tried to teach her English, never attempted to.

Mr. Jenner.

That is he never spoke to Marina other than in Russian, and as you say, he never tried to teach her English?

Mrs. Gibson.

He never tried to teach her English, never, not one word.

Mr. Jenner.

Did that strike you and your husband Gary as a little out of the ordinary?

Mrs. Gibson.

Well, we told him we thought that it was extremely stupid and we asked him why, and he said that he didn't want to lose his Russian. She, of course in Russia I believe she worked in a pharmacy. Wasn't she a pharmacist? And therefore we said to be able to get a license over here she would have to speak English, and it didn't seem to bother him. I think he didn't like the idea of her having more education than he did. I think he wanted her to remain solely dependent on him.

Mr. Jenner.

During all the period that you and your husband were acquainted with the Oswalds, was there ever any discussion about either of them returning to Russia?

Mrs. Gibson.

No; he did not want to go back.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he say that?

Mrs. Gibson.

Yes. He disliked Russia just like he disliked the United States.

Mr. Jenner.

What was your impression of him? Was he looking for utopia?

Mrs. Gibson.

I'd say so. He didn't agree with communism and he didn't agree with capitalism. He had his own ideas completely on government.

Mr. Jenner.

Would you please call on your recollection and tell us what you recall as to what his beliefs, political beliefs, were, as he expressed them?

Mrs. Gibson.

Well, I'd say that his beliefs were more socialistic than anything else. I mean he believed in the perfect government, free of want and need, and free of taxation, free of discrimination, free of any police force, the right to be able to do exactly what he pleased, exactly when he pleased, just total and complete freedom in everything.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he talk in terms of any obligation to this so-called perfect state?

Mrs. Gibson.

No. Actually I think he believed in no government whatsoever, just a perfect place where people lived happily all together and no religion, nothing of any sort, no ties and no holds to anything except himself.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he ever discuss in that connection the necessity for making a contribution to that society; working himself? Or was this a utopia in which he was to be free to do what he pleased, work or not as he saw fit?

Mrs. Gibson.

I really don't know if he planned to work or not. I don't know what Lee wanted to do in life. I think he wanted to be a very important person without putting anything into it at all.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you have any impression of resentment on his part?

Mrs. Gibson.

He resented any type of authority. He expected to be the highest paid immediately, the best liked, the highest skilled. He resented any people. in high places, any people of any authority in government or, oh, in let's say