Mr. Tobias.

here; and the same here [indicating]. It's two-story and the same thing upstairs.

Mr. Jenner.

What is the apartment number that is right in back of that patio?

Mr. Tobias.

This is No. 6.

Mr. Jenner.

And the one to the right?

Mr. Tobias.

This is No. 5.

Mr. Jenner.

And the one in front of that?

Mr. Tobias.

This is my apartment here.

Mr. Jenner.

Number what?

Mr. Tobias.

No. 7.

Mr. Jenner.

And what address is that on Elsbeth?

Mr. Tobias.

This is 602.

Mr. Jenner.

All right. Write that in and now we've got it. Now, what I want you to tell me about--is--tell me about that patio, how big is it?

Mr. Tobias.

Oh, let's see, that must be 25 to 30 feet deep.

Mr. Jenner.

How far across?

Mr. Tobias.

About the same thing across.

Mr. Jenner.

Does it have shrubbery and trees?

Mr. Tobias.

You see, you have a front door--this is our front entrance here.

Mr. Jenner.

Will you put a little square there?

Mr. Tobias.

For these two apartments and for these three apartments here----

Mr. Jenner.

I asked Mrs. Tobias, and I'm going to ask you this, because you are more accustomed to this sort of thing. Could a man stand in that patio and dry sight a firearm or a weapon and not be noticed?

Mr. Tobias.

In the summertime yes; because along here is shrubbery and along here is shrubbery. [Indicating.]

Mr. Jenner.

Now, would you put a figure in there, because we need it for the record and let's call that your first figure here let's put an "A" in there, and the other one "B". Now, those are shrubs or shrubbery?

Mr. Tobias.

That's right; and there is a brick wall across here.

Mr. Jenner.

How high is that brick wall?

Mr. Tobias.

That's about 18 inches.

Mr. Jenner.

Just a low wall?

Mr. Tobias.

Yes; and there are, shrubs on the outside of that wall and on the inside of the patio area here and in here in the center I have a round circle dug out and have got some kind of grass that grows right on there but that wouldn't amount to nothing.

Mr. Jenner.

That shrubbery that is facing on Elsbeth Street, how tall is that?

Mr. Tobias.

This shrubbery, now, faces these buildings here and it faces this apartment here.

Mr. Jenner.

The "A" shrubbery faces the 604 address bank of apartments, and the "B" shrubbery faces your apartment?

Mr. Tobias.

Yes; No. 7. Now, this shrubbery is about 3 to 4 feet high.

Mr. Jenner.

That's the "A" shrubbery?

Mr. Tobias.

Yes. This shrubbery over here is not so high because some of it died on me and I had to dig it up, but here now I have a big tree.

Mr. Jenner.

When you say "here," you are pointing to the center?

Mr. Tobias.

Up here I have two pieces of shrubbery on each side of that.

Mr. Jenner.

The tree is what kind of a tree?

Mr. Tobias.

It's a fir tree.

Mr. Jenner.

It's solid fight down to the ground?

Mr. Tobias.

That fir is up there maybe 25 feet high.

Mr. Jenner.

So, somebody could stand behind the tree, and dry sight a rifle and not be seen from Elsbeth Street?

Mr. Tobias.

That's right.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, pursuing this same subject--first, Elsbeth Street runs in what direction?

Mr. Tobias.

North and south.

Mr. Jenner.

Which is the north end--the 604 side or your side?

Mr. Tobias.

Let me see, now. I get confused in directions.