Mrs. Tobias.

Well, that's what they call it--I guess that's what it is. I think it is a patio.

Mr. Jenner.

Well, I'm just trying to locate it.

Mrs. Tobias.

That's what it's call--a patio.

Mr. Jenner.

Of course, I'm not trying to make any comment about it.

Mrs. Tobias.

That's what they do call it, though.

Mr. Jenner.

All right, we'll call it a patio--does the patio run from where?

Mrs. Tobias.

From Elsbeth back to this----

Mr. Jenner.

All right, we will make that a dotted line back to the rear of the building, which is the west end of the building, correct?

Mrs. Tobias.

Right. Now, there is no entrance for them to go out here. They got out over her they come out into the hallway and into 2, and then, they have a back entrance. This one apartment--there's a back entrance only for that No. l no one else has a private but that No. 10.

Mr. Jenner.

How private is that patio?

Mrs. Tobias.

Well, it's just an entrance leading out to each house an entrance.

Mr. Jenner.

If a man were in that patio with a firearm or a weapon or a rifle and he were dry sighting o you know what that is dry shooting it?

Mrs. Tobias.

I think so.

Mr. Jenner.

That is, holding it up, not loaded, but practicing the trigger and sighting, and what not, would he be noticed?

Mrs. Tobias.

Well, it's visible---that's what you meant?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.

Mrs. Tobias.

There's an awful lot of shrubbery out there in front of our window, the front window, and also there's just an awful lot of shrubbery. It would be noticeable sure, if you were up in the front, you would see it, but sad to say, I don't see very much from my front window because it's just loaded with shrubbery and the trees are quite tall quite high.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, this patio a a which runs the length of the building from Elsbeth Street back west--that is an open space and it's open right up to the sky?

Mrs. Tobias.

That's correct.

Mr. Jenner.

During any of the time that the Oswalds occupied Apartment 604 and were your tenants, did you ever see Mr. Oswald in the patio area with a weapon?

Mrs. Tobias.

No; I never did.

Mr. Jenner.

A firearm?

Mrs. Tobias.

No; I haven't.

Mr. Jenner.

Whether in the patio or elsewhere?

Mrs. Tobias.

No; I never seen him appear out there----I never seen him with any one.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever hear that he' had one while he was there?

Mrs. Tobias.

No; I didn't. I didn't hear that. I suppose we would have been real frightened, but we didn't--he did have an awful lot of trouble with his wife.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, it is true, then I gather, from that chance remark that you made that if you saw him with a weapon that would have alarmed you?

Mrs. Tobias.

I think it would have because he was kind of an odd kind of a person.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, were you in the office when that apartment was rented, did you have the first contact with him?

Mrs. Tobias.

Yes; he came in our house.

Mr. Jenner.

Why don't you tell me about that?

Mrs. Tobias.

Well, the night he came over to rent the place----

Mr. Jenner.

It was at night?

Mrs. Tobias.

In the evening--yes, and then he didn't take it, but he wanted to look around. He asked my husband if he might look around.

Mr. Jenner.

Your husband was home?

Mrs. Tobias.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And you were home?

Mrs. Tobias.

Yes.