Mr. Dulles.

that Mr. and Mrs. Paine were separated or were living separately, and it was probably going back to Mrs. Paine, although I understand Mr. Paine from time to time would visit there.

Mr. Oswald.

That is my understanding, too, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

And was that the understanding at the time you gave Marina this advice?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir; it was.

Mr. Dulles.

Do you know whether Mr. Paine stayed there from time to time, or he just visited his wife? I understand they are separated, and not divorced? Isn't that correct?

Mr. Jenner.

That is my understanding.

Mr. Oswald.

That is my understanding, also.
And in answer to your question, sir, I became aware of this on night, November 23, 1963, at the Dallas police office.

Mr. Jenner.

Aware of the separation?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir. As the Paines were about to depart with the children and my mother. And the statement was made by Mr. Paine that he would--I believe this to be my best recollection--that he would take them out there and return to his apartment, at which time the looks on both my mother's and myself's faces asked the question to Mrs. Paine, without saying anything, and she said, "Well, it is a difficult situation, I will explain it on the way."

Mr. Jenner.

And that increased your antipathy?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir; it did.

Mr. Jenner.

And the decision was made, as you have related then, that Marina would reside with the Martins?

Mr. Oswald.

Not on Wednesday night, sir.
On Thursday, the ensuing night.

Mr. Jenner.

The following day?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

And you have told us about that.

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, you had occasion to observe, did you not, the treatment of FBI agents of your mother, at least in your presence? Their attitude towards her and their treatment of her?

Mr. Oswald.

Sir, I do not recall any FBI agents in the presence of my mother.

Mr. Jenner.

You do not?

Mr. Oswald.

If I may, sir--I believe you have reference to the United States Secret Service agents there.

Mr. Jenner.

No. I was going to ask you that. But Representative Ford has a question which he has limited, however, to the FBI, so I did want to cover that.
You have no basis for an opinion, then, as to the treatment of your mother, Marguerite, accorded to her by the--by FBI agents?

Mr. Oswald.

That is correct.

Mr. Jenner.

You might have an opinion, but you have no--well, I will withdraw that.
Now, I ask you, likewise, with respect to the Secret Service agents.

Mr. Oswald.

There was some friction with one agent and my mother, whom she seemed to resent very harshly, any time this agent spoke to her.

Mr. Jenner.

You used the word "harshly." Does that include "unjustly" in your opinion?

Mr. Oswald.

No, sir; it would not.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you share the opinion that the Secret Service agent you have in mind was treating her harshly?

Mr. Oswald.

No, sir; I would not be of that opinion. And the Secret Service agent in question here is Mr. Charlie Kunkel.

Mr. Jenner.

During this period, did you have a good impression of him?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir, I did.

Mr. Jenner.

Having in mind all of the circumstances, and the stresses, and his duties, do you have an opinion as to whether he accorded her normal and expected courtesy and proper treatment?