No one ran into the Texas Book Dep looking for a shooter, so many would have seen standing looking towards the motorcade, after it passed them before it turned down elm, still standing there, they would have then seen the shooter make the shot from the sound and then looking to find where the shot "pop" originated.

I am retired Army, an expert rifleman, and no way could I make two hits with the dynamics involved, one neck and one head....

Set up....

Born Sep 1, 1963.....

One more thing comes to mind about Ken's scenario regarding LBJs proclaiming RFKs complicity in his taking the oath of office immediately. Most of America was shocked at the almost instantaneous transfer of power.

The truth is, RFK could not have protested even if he had wanted to-------------remember the entire phone system went out for one solid hour all over Washington DC just minutes after the assassination. RFK couldn't have contacted anyone if he had tried. All anyone in Washington knew was what they heard over the radio and television and that included those at the top. They left nothing to chance.

Ken says the key phrase in so many scenarios,

"evidence was faked"..................

You can take those 3 words and inject them into more scenarios than you care to know about. Look them up, consider the facts vs what the government spun out of it......here are a few more........from history........

Robert Kennedy

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Malcolm X

JFK Jr.

Vincent Foster

9/11

Anthrax

TWA 800

Moon "Landing"

AIDS

LSD

Roswell Incident

Crack Cocaine

Iran Contra

These are just to name a few........

Even if the Murchison meeting on 21/11/63 as related by Madeleine Brown and others somehow is not accurate or true,there is massive evidence not only from the assassination itself but also within the cut-outs and cover-up which strongly suggest a conspiracy at a very high level and a clear coup d etat changing US foreign policy almost at once in favour of extending the Vietnam War.

Almost as clear as this evidence is the vehemence of so many against any other theories than the Warren Commission Theory and the magic bullet in what at best is an utterly naive determination to believe in the innate goodness of the State,at worst originating in malicious motives to shout down and drown protest and concern, for what happened that day remains a monstrous and unresolved scandal asking still today huge questions of the nature and accountability of US power and democracy.

Everything was faked about the assassination from the palm print found much later on that useless Italian junk- there were no fingerprints-to the suppression of the fact that LHO passed the paraffin test showing he hadn't fired a rifle , to the ballistics evidence over the Tippet killing which would have been laughed out of any court,to the autopsy x rays and photos which even the Bethesda doctors couldnt recognise as even similar to the wounds they had seen and which entirely contradicted the earlier observations of everyone at Parkland,with there also being evidence that the Zapruder film has been widely altered to seek to show massive frontal wounds but the forgers have overlooked Z285 showing Connally to have been hit in the back by at least a fourth bullet which is what he and his wife always claimed afterwards.( The Warren C theory was a maximum of 3 bullets)

For the conspiracy to succeed there had to be just one shooter/the patsy and this was the Warren mandate it discharged after Ford moved the back entry wound up 5 inches to seek to make the magic bullet fit which he admitted in 1977.( what a phoney!)

Just to look at how being anywhere near Jack Ruby was extremely dangerous,of the 6 people who met in his bugged apartment the evening before he caved in to the threats to his and his sisters life ,assisted by a number of police, to silence LHO, believing he would get a minor sentence and not the chair-as he did at his ist trial-3 were dead in just over the next 2 years,as were the 2 journalists who went to Ruby's apartment the following evening, after the assisted killing, as was Dorothy Kilgallen who had promised to break the case after Ruby opened up for the first time to her,realising he was in much deeper waters than he had been promised( though he tried to get out of it by a warning tel call to the Dallas Police) As well as enemies in LBJ who was headed for prison over the Baker corruption case and associated murders which Billie Sol Estes later swore were committed by Mac Wallace whose fingerprint was found on the 6th floor and Hoover who hated JFKs political direction and sexuality, he had many other enemies outside the dismissed CIA Director Alan Dulles( who later is part of the Warren C !!) and Gen Charles Cabel( brother of the Mayor of Dallas) following the Bay of Pigs fiasco,which so much stirred the hatred of the Right.

These may have included members of the Secret Service-E.W.Hunt the Watergate burglar who lost his libel case over his presence in Dallas that day said that Cord Meyer was a key plot organiser -JFK had had an affair with Mary Meyer who was bizarrely murdered shortly afterwards when jogging - and which may have stood down on Dealey Plaza- clearly they were totally negligent at best with driver William Greer who had worked for JFK enemy Cabot Lodge utterly incompetent in not racing from the scene after the first frontal throat shot which had ricocheted as it passed through the windscreen on the turn into Elm Street and then bringing the limousine to a halt as the assassination then possibly moved to Plan B with the fatal shot coming from the Triple Overpass end of the Grassy Knoll.( Both the huge turn into Elm Street and the slow speed were complete breaches of SS regulations)

Complicity here saw raised guns as the body was taken off back to Love Airport where LBJ lied that he had received advice from RFK to immediately take the oath of office, and thus stayed on the ground for over an hour and it was at this time that the plot was at its weakest had there been a constitutional challenge from RFK.

Later Secret Service attempted to browbeat the Parkland staff over what wounds they had actually witnessed and was possibly involved in placing false photos and x rays after the Bethesda x ray. Could JFK have ever survived even if Dallas had failed?

It seems doubtful if he was getting accurate advice on security matters even after the Chicago and Miami plots.To find Milteer in the crowd at Dealey Plaza to personally see the death of the man he hated does not then come as a surprise, nor the claim by William Reymond that a copy of the original Z film(before the alterations by Time -Life)was sold to the man many believe was the banker of the plot H.L Hunt who incidentally Madeleine Brown says was at the secret session at Murchison on 21/11/63 along with many other business backers in construction and in the arms trade of LBJ together with those mentioned earlier.

Is it also surprising then that the first tip off call over LHO came from someone in Bell Helicopters where Ruth Paines husband worked which had invested millions in their new models as they geared up for war and would have gone bankrupt if JFK had got his way by NSAM 263 to pull out the ist 1000 American personnel( advisers-no combat troops there) by Christmas 1963 which LBJ who only a few days before was heading for a very long spell of imprisonment overturned by NSAM 273 before he went on to con the whole American nation by the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and to massively extend the disastrous war.

There is a declassified document that is a letter from J. Edgar and the name George Bush of the CIA is named in it. Bush denies it was him. Yet in the early 70's he is made director of the CIA.

It is a well known fact that Nixon on his infamous White House tapes mentions the "Bay of Pigs" many times in conversations. A number of insiders have told that it is code for the Kennedy assassination.

It is also believed that all 3 attended the famous meeting the night before the assassination at the home of Clint Murchison, the one where LBJ storms out declaring that "after tonight those goddamned Kennedys will never embarrass me again".

Of course the truth is, LBJ was the embarrassment and was going to be dropped from the 64 ticket and he knew it.

Many law enforcement officials said that had he not succeeded to the Presidency he most likely would have been indicted in Texas for numerous felony crimes.

Why are the following people in Dallas and won't explain there reasons for there presence on 11-22-63:

George H. W. Bush, Richard Nixon, J. Edgar Hoover,

amongst others.

The most interesting, George H. W. Bush, was on a CIA Covert Mission. He won't explain what kind, and he soon was ushered on to China to get away from the area. Question: Who of these people most gained and are still gaining from the murder of Kennedy? Step up Bush family! You got a secret you been hiding? Don't you?

"If the United States ever experiences an attempt at a coup to overthrow the government, it will come from the C.I.A.

The agency represents a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone".

John F. Kennedy

i would recommend a book published in 2005 for those interested in the case,

ULTIMATE SACRIFICE by Waldron and Hartmann. Though its a tough read (almost 800 pages with a gazillion names) it is where we are at this point

43 years after the assasination. After

numerous reports, too many to mention, well over a million CIA records have

yet to be released and won't be until 2017. What is interesting is that this case refuses to die because if you believe the conspiracy theories then there are no protections for groups wanting to change the system whatever the constitution and the bill of rights might say. If you believe JFK, RFK and

Martin Luther King were all assasinated by right-wing lone gunmen you are the one who shouldn't miss your medication.

The link below is a MUST READ if you want to know what really happened. Make a special note of what the author says down at the bottom about in case anything happens to him.

http://www.mondovista.com/lbj/

All of this was filmed as a part of the BBC Series The Men Who Killed Kennedy. When the History Channel was going to air it, the Johnson family and other influentials in Texas managed to get it taken off the prgramming schedule. It has not been shown yet, but you can see it on youtube.

I personally know of a number of JFK researchers who have been threatened, had their mailboxes burned down, and either threatened or intimidated in other ways, and this is in recent years.

Now, if Oswald acted alone, why would this stuff still be happening? It would have ended with Oswald's death---end of story. But it didn't. The list of deaths grew and grew. The threats and intimidation of those who get close to the truth continue to this day. This is not melodrama---this is real life.

There is also one more VERY strong motive for murder----self defense. Many many fingers have begun to point at LBJ as the main source of the "hit". The Mafia and CIA/Military served as the best source of the "hitmen". The Warren Commission was the cover-up. There was no doubt LBJ was going to be indicted for crimes in Texas including his part in the murder of a county official investigating illegal cotton paybacks along with Billy Sol Estes. He was going to be dropped from the Democratic ticket in the 64 election. Being the VP would not have helped (remember Spiro Agnew). But being the President----the best cover of all. My main reasons for believing this are:

1. The words of Jack Ruby on film: "If Adlai Stevenson had been President Kennedy's Vice President, he would still be alive." "If you want to know what happened, look at the guy who has the top job now."

2. Written and recorded words of E.Howard Hunt naming LBJ as the main source of the assassination plot.

3. Book written by Barr McClellan (yes, father of Scott) "Blood, Money, and Power"--how LBJ killed JFK. McClellan worked for Ed Clark, LBJ's attorney in Texas who was trying to keep him out of prison. Ed Clark is also mentioned by E. Howard Hunt as a key figure in the assassination.

I also believe Hunt played a role in the assassination and his son believes he was one of the three "tramps" in the famous photo.

I have ofter wondered what action Kennedy performed that was the absolute clincher in the decision to assassinate the former president. I tend to think towards the deportation of Carlos Marcello (Mafia Don), the ties with the mutual mistress that he and Santo Traficante(Mafia)shared, and the document that would when implemented would shorten the Vietnam War. Violent crimes are comitted for one of three following reasons.Drugs, sex, money. Marcello was at the heirarchy of Mob Bosses with a drug record, Jealousy and rejection of a lover who is now in love with another has been the source of thousands of confrontations, and the money budgeted for the Vietnam war was in the billions. When it was shortened, somebody didn't get paid. All three could be a portion of the source for the final go ahead, but one of three would be serious enough in the assassins perspective to justify murder.

Below are links to two videos. One showing Ruby confessing that others forced him to kill Oswald, the other showing him telling a reporter that LBJ was behind the assassination. The first one has been shown on TV and in documentaries. The one showing him pinning the assassination on LBJ I had never seen before and I doubt many have. This is not a man saying he killed Oswald to spare Jackie the trauma of a trial. This is a man saying he was set up by others and forced into eliminating Oswald. Anyone who would try to spin Ruby's words any other way just isn't listening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-L5xYwb2ls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2eucWXqjg

I'm just amazed that there are still so many conspiracy theories surrounding this. There seems to be a lack of acceptance among many people over 40 years later. There is NO REAL evidence to the contrary of what actually DID happen. The president was shot and killed by a single gunman, who acted ALONE - a relative 'nobody' who wanted to be 'somebody'. He was a trained sharpshooter, well able to make the shots he did. Like Oswald, Ruby also acted alone - there's no real evidence to the contrary.

One more thing about the Armstrong book, it has a CD-ROM that goes with it which shows all of the orginal documents and photos that he sought out both here and abroad that are the basis of his conclusions. That serves as his source. He just did not choose to do a detailed bibliography at the end of the book. Just because a book does not have a long detailed bibliography does not mean it is not well researched. The CIA was in the business of CREATING identities, making people appear and disappear to suit whatever espionage and spy games they were into at the time. E.Howard Hunt was classic CIA. He wrote quite a number of spy thrillers that were based on actual life experience. Remember Mission Impossible?? based on the life of E. Howard Hunt named "Ethan" in the movie. On his deathbed Hunt audiorecorded a statement in the presence of his son about the Kennedy assassination. He named LBJ as the main source of the hit, and named Cord Meyer as the main CIA operative. Cord Meyer's ex wife, Mary Pinchot Meyer, had a long term affair with Kennedy from January 1962 up to the time of the assassination.

Sorry, Steve, I did not mean to skip over you, but somehow I did.

You can think whatever about Armstrong's book, but it does explain alot about why Oswald was seen in so many places at the same time. And you cannot deny that those government issued photos of him are clearly TWO DIFFERENT MEN. Yet they say all of them are Lee Harvey Oswald. How can you ignore that?

Regarding ballistics and the whole thing, my whole problem with the case is that the government did not rely on experts to solve anything. They let Arlen Specter and the Warren Commission members decide how the President died. A man who was neither an eye or ear witness and who was not in Dallas that day. He knows nothing of ballistics, yet they allowed him to "sum up" the case and decide how Kennedy and Connally were both wounded.

You can clearly see in the Z film that when the President grabs his throat, Connally is looking back with a Stetson hat in his hand, the same hand they say suffered a shattered wrist. If that bullet had made both wounds, the Gov would not still be holding that hat. They ignored the doctor's accounts, the first ones to see the President after the shooting. Virtually all of the doctors have said repeatedly that the neck would appeared to be a wound of entrance and the wound in the back of the head appeared to be an exit wound. Pretty cut and dried if you ask me.

Bob,

Of course the scenario is preposterous not only with the head wound but also with the so-called single bullet. Remember, these were NOT experts who came up with these scenarios, they were NOT forensic scientists or pathologists or ballistics experts. They were government and political appointees hand picked by LBJ for the Warren Commission whose sole purpose it was to make all evidence and facts "fit" the lone gunman theory.

Please see the following link about Tom Wilson, a photo computer analysis expert who has been used by the Justice Dept and Federal Courts. His work and interview on The Men Who Killed Kennedy explain alot. He conducted in-depth scientific computer analysis of not only the Zapruder film stills but the autopsy photos and came up with some surprising findings. Of course, these don't "fit" the Warren Commission scenario so they were never really given serious consideration. Mr. Wilson expresses his frustration in the video series. He has since passed away.

http://www.jfklancer.com/dallas00/Dallas00spea.html

Your second point is not completely accurate. The bullet didn't exactly exit in an upward angle as you stated. Once the Western Cartridge Company 6.5mm bullet struck the President's skull it broke up into several smaller pieces and each were deflected in a variety of FORWARD directions. Some were deflected downward while others were scattered to the right front. Of course how a bullet reacts once it enters something like a human skull cannot always be predicted nor duplicated perfectly. But we DO know that all metallic particles were projected to the FRONT of the President. The two large and one smaller tracable fragments found on the floor of the limousine were found to the FRONT of the President's head--NONE were found behind and to the left (which one would expect if the president had been struck by a frontal shot--which he was not.) So the fact that all metallic particles were located to the front of the rear entrance wound simply proves that the fatal shot was fired from above and behind the president.

i don't get the bullet entering in the back of jfk's head in a downward angle and exiting out the right side of his head (upward ). the brain certainly wouldn't deflect a bullet , it's way too soft of tissue ??? am i just taking this to simple ?

I am currently reading the bestseller by Gov. Jesse Ventura, "Don't Start The Revolution Without Me." Interesting read. He doesn't believe any of the "lone nut" theories either, and also is questioning the official government version of 9/11. When the truth is finally known about 9/11, it will make the 60's assassinations look like small change, and I mean no disrespect by that. One thing though, Gov. Ventura is no dummy. He knew he could not express views like that if he were either a Democrat or Republican, that is why he became an independent. You will never EVER see either a Dem or

Rep question the government's official version of anything, NEVER.

Incidentally, when Jesse went to Cuba, he discovered he was being tailed by the CIA. They paid him a visit when he got back. His mission down there was purely humanitarian. He served his country as a Navy Seal. This administration's idea of patriotism is so screwed and has done so much damage, we may never recover our Democracy.

Steve, Read David Liftons Book Best Evidence if you want to know what happened. His theory explains everything.