(Testimony of Samuel B. Ballen)
Mr. Liebeler.
best recollection, give the substance of the conversation that you and Oswald had that day?
Mr. Ballen.
We commenced speaking in pleasantries, and I had known from De Mohrenschildt that he had gone to Russia, that he had married, and come back. I did not know of any unpleasant association with the Marine Corps, nor did I know of any attempt on his part to be a defector.
I asked him why he had left and gone to Russia, and he said that this Russian movement was an intriguing thing and he wanted to find out for himself and didn't want to depend upon what the newspapers or visitors had said, and that he had gone there and spent some time there. He gave me the impression somehow that this was in the southern portion of Russia. And he said that the place was just boring, that there was hardly anything of any real curiosity or interest there.
I had gotten the feeling, and I don't know how specific I can make this, but all of his comments to me about Russia were somewhat along a negative vein. He said nothing to me that would indicate that he still had any romantic feeling about Russia. His comments to me seemed to be fairly realistic.
Some time as we talked on, he displayed somewhat the same type of detached objective criticism towards the United States and our own institutions.
Mr. Liebeler.
Can you remember anything specifically that he said along that line?
Mr. Ballen.
I don't believe I can recall anything specific, but there were just during the entire course of this 2 hours, general observations, general smirks, general slurs that were significant to me that he was equally a critic of the United States and of the U.S.S.R., and that he was standing in his own mind as somewhat of a detached student and critic of both operations, and that he was not going to be snowed under by either of the two operations, whether it be the press or official spokesmen.
He would have displayed pretty much to me a plague-on-both-your-houses type of viewpoint, but the one thing that greatly started to rub me the wrong way is, as I started to seriously think through possible industrial openings or possible people I could refer him to, and he could see I was really making an effort in this respect, he kept saying, and then he repeated himself a little too often on this, he said to me, "Now, don't worry about me, I will get along. Don't you worry yourself about me." He said that often enough that gradually it became annoying and I just felt this is a hot potato that I don't think will fit in with any organization that I could refer him to.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he ever demonstrate or indicate to you any particular hostility toward any official of the U.S. Government?
Mr. Ballen.
None whatsoever; none whatsoever. My own subjective reaction is, that the sum total of these 2 hours that I spent with him, I just can't see his having any venom towards President Kennedy.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did President Kennedy come up in any way during the course of your discussion?
Mr. Ballen.
No; it did not. The sum total of his reaction, limited as it was that I got from this individual, is that this man would have--this is subjective, I can put no concrete support in there, but I would have thought that this is an individual who felt warmly towards President Kennedy.
Mr. Liebeler.
You drew that inference simply as a general impression based on the 2 hours that you spent conversing with him?
Mr. Ballen.
That's correct.
Mr. Liebeler.
Could you--and you can't pinpoint anything specifically that led you to that conclusion?
Mr. Ballen.
No, sir.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did you have any discussion, or was the name of Governor Connally mentioned?
Mr. Ballen.
No; it was not.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did Oswald manifest any hostilities toward any particular institution of the United States?
Mr. Ballen.
Yes. I think he had referred sarcastically to some of our religious institutions, or all religious institutions, and I think he referred with some venom and sarcasm to some race prejudices in the United States. I
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