Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember Lydia Dymitruk being there?

Mr. Ray.

Well, I might.

Mr. Liebeler.

I don't want you to remember if you don't really.

Mr. Ray.

Well, I don't really right now. I don't really remember.

Mr. Liebeler.

Tell us what the conversation about the Oswalds was to the best of your recollection.

Mr. Ray.

The thing that I remember most was George telling us what a nut he was. It seemed that George had tried to help him and I think the Fords had tried to help him and maybe the Frank Rays or some of this group, you know, had tried to help him get adjusted and tried to help Mrs. Oswald get adjusted to the American way of life and frankly, George Bouhe came out and told me he said he was a damn nut.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he tell you any specific reasons for his opinion?

Mr. Ray.

Well, nothing real specific but it seemed that he wasn't too good to his wife. He didn't treat her as they thought he should. He wasn't real good to her.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Bouhe tell you that Oswald was reported to have beaten Marina up?

Mr. Ray.

I think that came into the conversation, too, and that she had gone and stayed a couple weeks with somebody. I don't know if it was the Fords or the Rays or who it was but that I think was the situation.

Mr. Liebeler.

Anyway, as far as you can recall Bouhe indicated that he was pretty much at the end of his rope as far as Oswald was concerned?

Mr. Ray.

Yeah.

Mr. Liebeler.

He did not have a very high opinion of Oswald?

Mr. Ray.

No; he did not have a high opinion of Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did anybody else there express an opinion about Oswald along these lines as far as you can remember?

Mr. Ray.

Well, you know, sitting down at a table having coffee and tea and everybody talks a little but what George said about him impressed me more than anything else that was said. I am sure that the others did have things to say but frankly I was not interested in the guy.

Mr. Liebeler.

You don't have any recollection of what anybody else said at this point?

Mr. Ray.

At this point I couldn't tell you what anybody else said; no. I am sure there was a discussion among the group. We were having coffee and cake and what-not and the subject came up about the Oswalds and that's the way it went.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you recall any discussion on the question of whether or not Oswald might be a Russian agent?

Mr. Ray.

I don't know whether that was discussed or not. It seems to me like somebody brought the subject up. It might have been my wife for all I know but we were wondering since he had left the United States and wanted to be a Russian citizen and had been over there, the time that he spent in Russia, why the hell did they let him back in; you know what I mean?

Mr. Liebeler.

The United States you mean?

Mr. Ray.

Yeah; why did they take him back and how--the question in my mind was how did he get his Russian wife out of Russia. It just looked odd to me.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was the question in your mind as to how he got his wife out partly related to the difficulties you had had?

Mr. Ray.

I knew the difficulties I had had and of course I have known the relations between the Americans and the Russians since the war and you know, the cold war and it cools off and it gets hot and I wondered at the time how the hell he got his wife out of Russia without so much trouble or maybe he had a lot of trouble getting her out but it did look odd to me.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was that subject discussed at this time you can remember amongst the group there; did George Bouhe offer any opinion on this question?

Mr. Ray.

I would say it could have been discussed and I cannot say whether it was or was not, you know that has been quite some time ago and it's hard to remember. I think the whole deal was discussed, you know, pretty well. We might have discussed that. I think we did but I wouldn't say for sure.