Mr. Jenner.

But you say she is an appreciative person?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes; I would. I could not convince her of how helpful it was to me to have her at my home in the fall of 1963. She was--thanked me too much, I felt. It was very helpful to me, to have her there, both because I was lonely, and because I was interested in the language. And I also reassured her many times that it was not costing me unduly financially--that this was not a burden. But I never felt I fully convinced her.

Mr. Jenner.

Well, is there anthing you would like to say off record or add to this record with respect to Marina Oswald as a person?

Mrs. Paine.

I think I have said the bulk of it.

Mr. Jenner.

I will ask you this--your view or opinion as to whether Marina Oswald was or could have been an agent of the government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.

Mrs. Paine.

My opinion is that she could not have been.

Mr. Jenner.

She was not and could not have been?

Mrs. Paine.

Was not and could not have been.

Mr. Jenner.

I wish to include both--that she was not and could not have been?

Mrs. Paine.

My impression was distinctly that she was not. I don't exclude the possibility that she could have been. I don't feel I have knowledge. It would seem to me highly unlikely. But that is different from being certain. I might add this. I think--things she said to me on the evening of the 22d.

Mr. Jenner.

22d of November 1963?

Mrs. Paine.

After we had returned from the police station.

Mr. Jenner.

You had returned to your home after being at the police station?

Mrs. Paine.

We returned to the home, had dinner, had talked for a little while in the living room, seen and sent home two Life reporters, and then were preparing for bed. And she and I talked a little bit, standing in the kitchen. She said both of the following things in a spirit of confusion and with a stunned quality, I would say, to her voice and her manner. She said to me all the information she had or most of it that she had about the Kennedy family came to her through translation from Lee, and that she thought----

Mr. Jenner.

What do you mean translation?

Mrs. Paine.

Well, in other words, if Lee read in the paper something about the Kennedys, or if there was something in Time Magazine about them, he would translate to Marina, that is, put into Russian what was said in this news media, and, therefore, inform her. And she thought that if he had had negative feelings about Kennedy, that this would have come along with the translation from Lee. But there was no such indication of dislike from Lee to her.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, this impressed you why?

Mrs. Paine.

I just record that she said it.

Mr. Jenner.

It has impressed you to the point at which you wish to relate it here. Why is that? You were relating it to what--to her groping as to why her husband committed this act?

Mrs. Paine.

Her wondering whether he could have, but not in a defensive way, but in this stunned way that I am trying to describe. And in the same way she told me that----

Mr. Jenner.

That is, is it your concept that she was ruminating--how could he have said these things or called her attention to these things with respect to President Kennedy, and still have assassinated him?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Was it in the sense that she was hurt, she could not understand it--or was she trying to rationalize that her husband, because of this, could not have assassinated the President?

Mrs. Paine.

It was more in the sense being hurt and confused. Not concluding that he had assassinated the President. But not attempting to conclude from this small piece of information that he had not. She also said that just the night before, the evening of the 21st, Lee had said to her he wanted to get an apartment soon, just as soon as she could, together again. And this was said very much with a feeling of hurt.

Mr. Jenner.

Hurt what?

Mrs. Paine.

Well, I have to interpret, because we didn't talk about it. But