And while you can see some benefits in communism as to persons of limited means, and poor countries, for initial development, you think that for a higher level of economic or cultural development communism is not good?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. Jenner.

Is that about it?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Exactly.

Mr. Jenner.

I don't want to put words in your mouth.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Exactly.
Now, I am very much influenced by a book called "Poor Countries and Rich Countries," by the editor of the Economist in London, which expresses my ideas on economics of the world as it is today.
It is a book which says that--which is available any place here--which says that the world today is divided into poor countries and rich countries, and that the question of communism and socialism is for ignoramuses. That freedom can exist in both types of economies---could exist eventually.
But the main problem of countries today is the richness and the poorness. Now, the rich countries are all of Western Europe, the United States, Canada, all of the satellite countries of Soviet Russia, Soviet Russia, Australia, and so on. Those are the countries which are producing more than they can eat--you see what I mean? And they develop the tools to produce industrial goods.
While the other countries, the rest of the world, is falling down in the morass of poverty, and becomes poorer and poorer as time goes on. You see what I mean?
Right now, I am living in one of those countries temporarily, Haiti, which is in terrible economic condition because people eat more than they can produce. Now, what can save those countries?
Either a tremendous injection of money from the capitalist countries, or a Communist regime, or a Socialist regime. What else can they do? So that is something to think about and worthwhile reading.

Mr. Jenner.

But, on the other hand, as far as your political philosophy is concerned, the thing that stands major with you is individual freedom?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. Naturally, you can see from all my life that I believe in individual freedom, and I could not live without it.

Mr. Jenner.

Sometimes to excess.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. To excess; yes. The big discussions I had in Yugoslavia was always about the freedoms. And I remember that I was attacked one day by a group of Communists in Yugoslavia about Governor Faubus, in Arkansas--saying "What happens there? Is that an example of democracy in Arkansas?" And I told them, yes, it is an example of democracy. I told them that you can imagine in your own country that the Governor would object to the order from the President, and the President had to send troops to make the Governor obey. And that made an impression on them. A few examples like that.

Mr. Jenner.

When you were in Yugoslavia, then, you did have debates with the Communists?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Occasionally--after a few drinks, you can talk to them. But they were engineers and geologists--they were not people active politically--they were not big shots.
With the big shots you cannot discuss it. But with smaller people, you can discuss.

Mr. Jenner.

Are you interested in debate?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very much so; yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Are you inclined in order to facilitate debate to take any side of an argument as against somebody who seeks to support----
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is an unfortunate characteristic I have; yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And that leads you at times to not necessarily speak in favor of, but to take the opposite view of somebody with respect to communism?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; sometimes it annoys me to have somebody who does not know anything about conditions anywhere else in the world attack

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