Mr. Belin.

Two conversations in total?

Mrs. Gravitis.

That's correct.

Mr. Belin.

Now, the first one you said was in May of 1963?

Mrs. Gravitis.

That's right.

Mr. Belin.

When was the second one?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Approximately maybe 2 or 3 weeks. I don't remember exactly when Mrs. Paine came back from San Antonio.

Mr. Belin.

This would be, say, June of 1963?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Approximately. Before she went to New Orleans.

Mr. Belin.

Have you ever talked to Marina Oswald since that time?

Mrs. Gravitis.

No.

Mr. Belin.

Have you ever talked to Mrs. Paine about either Marina Oswald or Lee Harvey Oswald since these conversations with Marina Oswald, or about that time? Have you ever since talked to Mrs. Paine about the Oswalds?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

What did you say, and what did Mrs. Paine say?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Mrs. Paine told me that Oswald obtained a job as a photographer in New Orleans, and now Marina can join him and go to New Orleans.

Mr. Belin.

Did Mrs. Paine ever invite you over to the home to meet Marina Oswald or her husband?

Mrs. Gravitis.

No; but she offered to bring Marina to our house. I mean, she didn't invite me to her own house, but offered to bring Marina to our house.

Mr. Belin.

What did you say to that?

Mrs. Gravitis.

She can bring Marina, but not her husband.

Mr. Belin.

Why didn't you want her husband?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Because he was using again this word, ideinyi. He was in the third stage of obtaining the Communist membership. Because I am afraid, and all of us are afraid that they are collecting some information on us and notifying their own people.

Mr. Belin.

By the use of the word "they," who do you mean? Lee Harvey Oswald, Marina Oswald, or both, or some other person?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Oswald--the people who are in this particular stage trying to get promotion. So they would spy on us. I had a fear.

Mr. Belin.

Did you think or did you say anything to Mrs. Paine about whether Marina Oswald had anything to do with this group that might be trying to spy, or what have you?

Mrs. Gravitis.

If I said to----

Mr. Belin.

To Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. Gravitis.

No; have not said. However, I said to Mrs. Paine to be more careful.

Mr. Belin.

What did Mrs. Paine say to that?

Mrs. Gravitis.

She said, "don't worry." Mrs. Paine is an American woman, and she is very naive, as all Americans are naive, nice, and very generous.

Mr. Belin.

Are you a citizen, Mrs. Gravitis?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

Are you coming here voluntarily to testify before the Warren Commission, the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Yes; we received a letter from Washington, of course.

Mr. Belin.

But you are here voluntarily to testify here? You have been asked to come here?

Mrs. Gravitis.

Nobody dragged us here; yes. We certainly volunteered, if you interpret it that way.

Mr. Belin.

Is there any other information you can give about Lee Harvey Oswald or Marina Oswald that you feel might be helpful in any way?

Mrs. Gravitis.

You mean personal opinion?

Mr. Belin.

Go ahead.

Mrs. Gravitis.

Mrs. Paine told me that Oswald---I did not know her last name, she always called her Marina and Lee so Mrs. Paine told me that Lee wants to send his wife to the Soviet Union. I asked why. She said, "She was pregnant." And she said, "Lee said that he doesn't have money to pay doctor bills, but had enough money to send her back to the Soviet Union." I said that