I interrupted you there. You were telling me how this knowledge came to you, that something serious had happened.
Mr. O'BRIEN. I don't think even up to that point, as the motorcade started to move out in front of us, as each car seemed to move out from great speed, we were at all aware of--certainly we had no idea of the specific nature of the occurrence. And we just were, I think you would have to describe, very confused. I remember particularly a Negro man with a youngster in his arms running up the slope of the lawn.

Mr. Adams.

On which side of the car?
Mr. O'BRIEN. On the right. And that was typical of all kinds of movement, as we tried to determine what had occurred, and we just didn't know.

Mr. Adams.

Did you have any radio communication in your car with the front cars?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No; we did not. At that point, a photographer--we started to move a little more rapidly. Our driver intended to follow the motorcade and move out. The motorcade moved out with great speed in front of us. And a photographer jumped on the trunk of our car--it was a convertible--holding onto the edge of the seat, and pounding his fist on the trunk, and obviously in a most excited state. We did not get anything coherent from him. I do not think we really attempted to, because at that point, as he hung onto our car, obviously to try and keep up with the motorcade himself, our car moved out with great speed.
The driver lost sight of the car in front of him in a matter of two or three minutes. He had no idea where the motorcade was headed. And they, therefore, proceeded to take us directly along the highway, passed the trade mart, which was to be the location of the President's stop and speech following the parade route.
We pulled up in front of the motorcade, slowed down, and someone called out, "He has been shot, he is draped over the back seat." And at that point the driver concluded that perhaps his destination should be the nearest hospital. And he started to move out with great speed toward this hospital. And as we came closer to it, it became obvious that that was our destination, because then you saw the cars, the motorcycle police, and what-have-you. As we arrived at the hospital, there was a great deal of commotion at the front.

Mr. Adams.

I think you misspoke yourself. You said you pulled up in front of the motorcade. I think perhaps you meant to say you pulled up in front of the trade mart.
Mr. O'BRIEN. Trade mart--I am sorry.

Mr. Adams.

Now, just to make it perfectly clear, did you see the President or Governor Connally at the moment that they were shot?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I did not.

Mr. Adams.

How long would you think it took you to go from the point where you heard the shots to the hospital?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would say overall it could approach 15 minutes.

Mr. Adams.

And what was your estimate of the rate of speed of your car?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would say 60 to 70 miles an hour.

Mr. Adams.

When you arrived at the hospital, what did you do?
Mr. O'BRIEN. When I arrived at the hospital, two of the Congressmen that had been in the motorcade, obviously, therefore, in a car ahead of my car, because they had arrived, came over to the car as we pulled up, and asked me to follow them immediately. There was a large crowd--I will correct that--there were many people in front of the entrance to the hospital, and the entrance was being guarded by police.
Congressman Thomas and Congressman Brooks went up to the officers at the door and said, "This is a Special Assistant to the President. Let him in." So he immediately opened the doors, and I went through, with the two Congressmen, who asked a hospital attendant inside the corridor the direction in which to go. There was a little confusion in the corridor as to direction, and we

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