Mr. Belin.

At that time was he an employee of your company?

Mr. Waldman.

He was.

Mr. Belin.

Was he under your jurisdiction and supervision?

Mr. Waldman.

He was not under my direct supervision, no. He was under the supervision of Sam Kasper.

Mr. Belin.

And where is Sam Kasper now?

Mr. Waldman.

He may or may not be here.

Mr. Belin.

I don't mean this afternoon. Is he with the company?

Mr. Waldman.

He is the vice president of our company.

Mr. Belin.

He is the other vice president of the company?

Mr. Waldman.

Correct.

Mr. Belin.

All right. Now, you started to go into the detail of what Deposition Exhibit I constituted. I just wonder if you will pick up where you left off here.

Mr. Waldman.

Yes; on the same form we show a record of the receipt of the rifles in question, specifically this extreme right-hand column which is filled in, indicating that on February 22, delivery was made to us by Lifschultz Trucking Co. I might explain the difference in the two dates here.

Mr. Belin.

Go ahead.

Mr. Waldman.

The February 21 date is the date in which the merchandise came to our premises whereas the date of February 22, is the date in which they were officially received by our receiving department.

Mr. Belin.

Your receiving department checks each order to see that the physical contents match the stated shipment on the invoice; is that correct?

Mr. Waldman.

They don't necessarily see that they match because they frequently do not match, but they determine actually how much was received by us.

Mr. Belin.

Now, I notice on Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. I a date well, I might read everything under the column of description; it says Italian Mannlicher-Carcano, Model 91TS, bolt action 6-shot rifle; and then cal.--that's for caliber--6.5, and then there is an "X" and 52 mm Italian-select, clean, and test-fired, changed to Beretta Terni M19, then a slash line 38 EFF, and then the date of 4/16/62. Explain that date and that description.

Mr. Waldman.

Yes; this general style of rifle was made by a number of different manufacturers over a period of time and there were minor modifications made by---developed by each of the manufacturers.

Mr. Belin.

Would this be similar to a number of manufacturers making the Springfield rifle in this country?

Mr. Waldman.

As for example, the different manufacturers making the Springfield rifle. Basically, the weapons were of the same general design, but as I say, there were details that were different.
We originally had ordered one style of Carcano rifle, one that was known as the Model 91TS. As time went on, we changed to another model known as the Model 91/38EFF, this on April 13, 1962.

Mr. Belin.

Now, I also note on Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 1, under the item number--some letters here or numbers----

Mr. Waldman.

C20-T749.

Mr. Belin.

What does that signify?

Mr. Waldman.

This is an identification number assigned by us for internal operating purposes.

Mr. Belin.

Would this be something akin to a catalog number?

Mr. Waldman.

Yes.
Off the record now. Can I speak without being----

Mr. Belin.

Yes.
(Whereupon, discussion was had off the record.)

Mr. Belin.

On the record.
Now, Mr. Waldman, you just requested to go off the record and told me that this is, the number that you read is not necessarily the only number that is assigned to one of these model rifles. Do you ever have any other numbers assigned to them?

Mr. Waldman.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

What would be the occasion for assigning a different number?

Mr. Waldman.

When the rifle is offered and sold together with a scope and