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(Testimony of Harry D. Holmes)
Mr. Holmes.
of it in New Orleans, and I got the impression that Captain Fritz was trying to get out of him the fact that he was the head man or the president of it, and he kept evading that and would be real evasive. But finally he admitted that he was, he said, "Actually, it was a loosely organized thing and we had no officers, but probably you could call me the secretary of it because I did collect money." In other words, "Secretary-Treasurer, because I did try to collect a little money to get literature and work with."
Then I asked ---oh, he mentioned, too, he said, "In New York they have a well organized or a better organization."
Well, I asked him, or one of us asked him about, "Is that why you came to Dallas, to organize a cell of this organization in Dallas?" And he said, "No, not at all."
"Did you work on it or intend to organize here in Dallas?
"No," he said, "I didn't. I was too busy trying to get a job." That is about all he said about it.
Mr. Belin.
Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?
Mr. Holmes.
He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."
He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.
You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."
Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."
And he wouldn't tell what happened then.
Mr. Belin.
Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?
Mr. Holmes.
He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----
Mr. Belin.
Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?
Mr. Holmes.
He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.
Mr. Belin.
Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?
Mr. Holmes.
No.
Mr. Belin.
You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?
Mr. Holmes.
Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"
And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"
And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.
Mr. Belin.
Did Oswald say why he left the building?
Mr. Holmes.
No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.
Mr. Belin.
Did Oswald say how he got home, if he did get home?
Mr. Holmes.
They didn't--we didn't go into that. I just assumed that they
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