Mr. Belin.

She was seated?

Mr. Graves.

No; she was standing.

Mr. Belin.

She was standing?

Mr. Graves.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

Did she look through an opening in the wall?

Mr. Graves.

No; this is a screen, a nylon screen of some kind. I am sure you have seen them?

Mr. Belin.

She can see through, as I understand, but the people in the showup room cannot see the people on the other side of the screen. Is that correct?

Mr. Graves.

That's correct.

Mr. Belin.

All right. Do you remember what she said or did after the men in the showup came in?

Mr. Graves.

Well, she began to cry when he came in. He was next. to the last man that come in in that order. No. 4, 3, 2, 1, and so forth that came in.

Mr. Belin.

You mean No. 4 came first, then No. 3 and then No. 2 and then No.

Mr. Graves.

That's right.

Mr. Belin.

When did she start crying?

Mr. Graves.

When he walked in, Oswald walked in.

Mr. Belin.

You mean when the No. 2 man walked in?

Mr. Graves.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

Were they still walking at the time she started crying?

Mr. Graves.

Yes. As soon as she saw him; yes. He would have to walk as far as from here to that stand, approximately.

Mr. Belin.

That would be about 6 or 8 feet?

Mr. Graves.

Yes, sir; roughly.

Mr. Belin.

All right. What did she do or say?

Mr. Graves.

Well, of course she said that was the man that she saw, Oswald. I mean at this particular time.

Mr. Belin.

Did she ask to have the men turn so that she would see their profiles?

Mr. Graves.

Well, I don't recall if she asked that or not, but that is the normal procedure that we do that. We turn him profile, right, left. and to the rear, and back to the front, in that order.

Mr. Belin.

Do you remember anything specific that she said at the time that she made the identification?

Mr. Graves.

Nothing other than he is the one, No. 2 is the one.

Mr. Belin.

Was anything said by any of the men in the showup that would--did they speak any words or say anything at all?

Mr. Graves.

If they did, I don't remember what was said. I am reasonably sure they asked some questions. That is the usual procedure. If they were at this point I just don't remember what was said.

Mr. Belin.

Do you remember the dress of the people in the showup?

Mr. Graves.

No; positively not.

Mr. Belin.

Does your police department ever take any photograph of an actual showup, I mean, insofar as still shots, to have any written or pictorial record of the men in the showup, as to what they were wearing or what they looked like?

Mr. Graves.

That was not a policy or an order at this time, but it has been done, however, in the past.
But for various reasons, as I say, it is not the customary thing, because we have quite a number of showups that would necessitate a time element there, sometimes waiting on the proper people to take the picture, and so forth.

Mr. Belin.

Anything else that you have any recollection of in connection with this showup of Mrs. Markham or Miss Markham's identification?

Mr. Graves.

I don't remember anything outstanding at this moment; no.

Mr. Belin.

Do you remember about when this took place, this actual showup?

Mr. Graves.

Well, let's see if I have it written down here. We put Lee Oswald in a four-man lineup in the city hall on November 22, 1963, at 4:30 p.m., and had Helen Markham view this lineup. She was positive on the identification of Oswald, and he was the No. 2 man in the four-man lineup.