Mr. Dillard.

Mr. .BALL. You didn't see a rifle barrel ?

Mr. Dillard.

Mr. Ball.

But you did see some figures or forms in the window?

Mr. Dillard.

Only in the windows which was the windows below.

Mr. Ball.

How many forms did you see in the windows below?

Mr. Dillard.

I saw two men in the windows, at least the arched windows. I saw them in my picture. I was making the picture my eyes were covering.

Mr. Ball.

You saw them as you were taking the picture?

Mr. Dillard.

I may have; I don't know.

Mr. Ball.

Do you remember if you saw two or three figures?

Mr. Dillard.

I don't remember.

Mr. Ball.

But you did see some figures and you cannot be accurate?

Mr. Dillard.

Right.

Mr. Ball.

Your car stopped where?

Mr. DILLARD. As I remember, we were stopping and starting down Houston Street or moving very slowly while this shooting was going on, and I know we came around the corner of Houston and Elm and saw people lying on the ground down the hill on the sides of the lawns there in the plaza, and I jumped out of my car. The car stopped then and I got out and I don't know what happened.

Mr. Ball.

What did you do after you got out?
Mr. DILLARD. Well, I made a picture of cars moving into the sun under the underpass, somebody chasing the car and I looked at the situation in that area and saw absolutely nothing of the Presidential car or anything that appeared worth photographing to me at the time.

Mr. Ball.

How long did you stay around there?

Mr. Dillard.

Perhaps 2 minutes.

Mr. Ball.

Then where did you go?

Mr. DILLARD. Another car, Chevrolet convertible, of the party came by with, I assume, dignitaries in it and I jumped on the back of it and we started---I told them, of course, who I was and we started out Stemmons Expressway toward the Trade Mart and I explained to them what I knew and tried to hold onto the back of that car at rather high speed. I never saw the Presidential car.
Mr. BALL. Do you have any idea or any impression as to the source of the explosions---what direction it was coming from?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, I felt that, at the time, I felt like it was coming from a north area and quite close, and I might qualify I have had a great deal of experience. I am a gun nut and have a great number of high-powered rifles at home, so I know a little bit about guns.

Mr. Ball.

You have had experience with rifles?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, I have shot a great deal, so I am familiar with the noise that they made in that area. We were getting a sort of reverberation which made it difficult to pinpoint the actual direction but my feeling was that it was coming into my face and, in that I was facing north toward the School Depository--I might add that I very definitely smelled gun powder when the
car moved up at the corner.

Mr. Ball.

You did?

Mr. Dillard.

I very definitely smelled it.
Mr. BALL. By that you mean when you moved up to the corner of Elm and Houston?

Mr. Dillard.

Yes; now, there developed a very brisk north wind.

Mr. Ball.

That was in front of the Texas School Book Depository?

Mr. Dillard.

Yes, it's rather close---the corner is rather close. I mentioned it, I believe, that it was rather surprising to me.

Mr. Ball.

Who did you mention it to?

Mr. Dillard.

Bob, I'm sure.

Mr. Ball.

Bob Jackson?

Mr. Dillard.

Yeah, Bob and I were talking about it.

Mr. Ball.

You developed your pictures, didn't you?

Mr. Dillard.

I don't remember.

Mr. Ball.

Or did you turn them over?

Mr. Dillard.

I printed them.