The Chairman.

Congressman Ford, will you preside, please?

Representative Ford.

Surely.
(At this point, Chief Justice Warren withdrew from the hearing room.)

Representative Ford.

Will you proceed, please, Mr. Jenner.

Mr. Jenner.

Thank you. In short compass, tell us the objectives of CUSA.

Mr. Weissman.

Well, the objectives of CUSA were substantially to set up a political business organization. We used a rough comparison with Ford and the Ford Foundation as an example. The Ford Foundation would be CUSA, Conservatism USA, and the Ford would be AMBUS, or American business.

Mr. Jenner.

What was AMBUS?

Mr. Weissman.

American business. This was the business half of the political organization.

Mr. Jenner.

This was to be a combination of business and politics?

Mr. Weissman.

Right. We were going to use the business end----

Mr. Jenner.

Which you called AMBUS?

Mr. Weissman.

That is right.

Mr. Jenner.

That would be----

Mr. Weissman.

American business, or American businesses.

Mr. Jenner.

I don't get the initials. A-B-U-S?

Mr. Weissman.

A-M-B-U-S--American business.

Mr. Jenner.

All right.

Mr. Weissman.

And we were trying to develop, in our own minds, without actually doing it at the time, ways to build up various businesses that would support us and at the same time support our political activities.

Mr. Jenner.

All right. Could I characterize it this way--that a material objective of this group or partnership was ultimately a self-interest in business?

Mr. Weissman.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Coupled with a political arm which was to aid or assist in the business, and each was to feed the other?

Mr. Weissman.

The business arm was to be developed mainly to feed the political arm.
(At this point, Representative Ford withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. Weissman.

We were mainly interested in the political end. At least this is my feeling on it. Mainly interested in the political end. And the business end, while, of course, we hoped it would succeed, in my mind was merely to support us politically.
(At this point, Representative Ford reentered the hearing room.)

Mr. Jenner.

All right. Now, as of this moment, Mr. Weissman, there were the five of you only. There were no others who were part of the combination business-political group?

Mr. Weissman.

We left out one man, one of the original men. His name was James Moseley.

Mr. Jenner.

Was he a GI with you?

Mr. Weissman.

No; he was an American civilian. His father was a major--is a major in the Army.

Mr. Jenner.

And was he an acquaintance of yours?

Mr. Weissman.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Prior to this time?

Mr. Weissman.

Not prior to this. I met him when I went into the organization.

Mr. Jenner.

I see. Was he an acquaintance of Mr. Schmidt's?

Mr. Weissman.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

How did he get in, is what I am getting at? How did he get into this little group here?

Mr. Weissman.

They all hung around the same bar.

Mr. Jenner.

What bar?

Mr. Weissman.

The Gastatte Lukullus.

Representative Boggs.

How far was that from the bar where Hitler used to gather?

Mr. Weissman.

A couple of miles, I think.

Mr. Jenner.

It is a bar in Munich?