Mr. Mccone.

and detailed examination of the informer, it finally turned out by the informer's own admission that the information was entirely erroneous, and was made for the purpose of advancing the informer's own standing with the Central Intelligence Agency and the U.S. Government and it was subsequently retracted by the informer in its entirety.

Representative Ford.

Was there any other evidence or alleged evidence----

Mr. Mccone.

Parenthetically, I might add a word for the record that the date that the informer gave as to the date in time of this alleged transaction was impossible because through other, from other, information we determined that Oswald was in the United States at that particular time.

Representative Form.

Did the Central Intelligence Agency ever make an investigation or did it ever check on Mr. Ruby's trip to Cuba or any connections he might have had with the Castro government?

Mr. Mccone.

Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Helms.

We had no information.

Mr. Mccone.

We had no information.

Representative Ford.

Central Intelligence Agency has no information of any connections of Ruby to the Castro government?

Mr. Mccone.

That is right.

Representative Ford.

Did you ever make a check of that?

Mr. Helms.

We checked our records to see if we had information and found we did not.

Representative Ford.

What would that indicate, the fact that you checked your records?

Mr. Helms.

That would indicate that if we had received information from our own resources, that the Cubans were involved with Mr. Ruby in something which would be regarded as subversive, we would then have it in our files. But we received no such information, and I don't, by saying this, mean that he did not. I simply say we don't have any record of this.

Representative Ford.

That is all.

The Chairman.

Director, thank you very much, sir, for coming and being with us and we appreciate the help your department has given to us.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

The Chairman.

Thursday, June 4, 1964

Testimony of Thomas J. Kelley, Leo J. , Lyndal L. Gauthier

Testimony of Thomas J. Kelley

The Chairman.

The President's Commission met at 2:10 p.m., on June 4, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE. Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, Representative Gerald R. Ford, Allen W. Dulles, and John J. McCloy, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Arlen Specter, assistant counsel; Waggoner Carr, attorney general of Texas; and Charles Murray, observer.
Thomas J. Kelley
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS J. KELLEY

The Chairman.

(Members present at this point: The Chairman, Representative Ford, Mr. Dulles, and Mr. McCloy.)

Mr. Specter.

Mr. Chief Justice, we have witnesses today who are Thomas J. Kelley of the Secret Service; Leo J. Gauthier, Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, and Robert A. Frazier of the FBI. They are going to testify concerning certain