(Testimony of Winston G. , Accompanied By Fred B. Smith, Lawson)
Mr. Lawson.
both situations. Again the motorcade was to be taken into consideration also If you went to the Trade Mart you would have certain ways to go and if you went to the Women's Building you would have certain ways to go. And so they had to decide, someone had to decide whether they wanted the Trade Mart or certain motorcade specifications also, in the 45-minute time lapse.
Mr. Stern.
On the basis of your experience, if you had had a strong Preference from a security point of view for one building over the other do you think that would have been followed in this case?
Mr. Lawson.
I could have only told them what I thought, and how much weight it would have had I don't know.
Mr. Stern.
Can you tell us roughly the total number of police, sheriff's office officials, and Secret Service agents that were engaged in protecting the President in Dallas and break them down if you can as between people at the Trade Mart, people on the motorcade route, people at Love Field?
Mr. Lawson.
I can give you what I was told was going to--that the police were going to provide but I won't be able to tell you exactly what they did provide, and also inform you that I was told that certain police were going to be shifted from one spot to another. I understood that as we went by a certain part of the motorcade some of those police then would be shifted perhaps over to the motorcade route on the way back in the intervening 11/2 or 2 hours that would still elapse. And I have that in my report if I can turn to it.
Mr. Stern.
Yes; why don't you tell us in total numbers at each location.
Mr. Lawson.
But again I cannot tell you if these police figures, being the ones that they gave me, show that these are the same amount of men that were shifted or if these are separate men, because they were going to use part on the motorcade and shift them to another spot.
Now, whether that would double it or what I do not know. At the Trade Mart 108, and I believe this includes out in the parking lots and on there. That doesn't mean they were inside the Trade Mart. Along the Route 90. And escorts 20. Love Field 55, cruising 100.
Mr. Stern.
Cruising?
Mr. Lawson.
Chief Curry said that naturally they have the rest of the city to protect and we can't go in and take every policeman that they have so that someone knows that all the police are going to be involved and it would be easier to commit certain crimes. But in addition to his regular police coverage of police cars throughout the city, there were also going to be some other police cars fairly close to our motorcade area, so that they could be called in if they had to be.
Mr. Stern.
I see.
Mr. Lawson.
Detectives, 40; department of public safety uniformed, 40; rangers, 5; plainclothes, 16; Dallas County Sheriff Department, 14; fire department, 26; the White House detail agents, 20; agents from the Vice President's detail, 4; agents from the Dallas office, 4.
Mr. Stern.
So there were 28 Secret Service agents involved?
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Stern.
At the various locations. Do you know whether the Dallas police who were used were full-time policemen or were auxiliary policemen?
Mr. Lawson.
I do not know.
Mr. Dulles.
Do you happen to know the circumstances under which there were some certain changes made as to the location of the motorcycle escort that went close to the President's car?
Mr. Lawson.
I know that their position varied, depending on the crowds.
Mr. Dulles.
No; 1 mean apart from that, apart from the crowd situation do you recall that any orders were given by or on behalf of the President with regard to the location of those motorcycles that were particularly attached to his car?
Mr. Lawson.
Not specifically at this instance orders from him. Just what 1 know to be the case from other advances, that unless it is necessary, it was my understanding that he did not like a lot of motorcycles surrounding the car. That is why we had four just back of the President's car, so that they could come up and intercept anyone running out from the sides easily, or we could call the other motorcycles back to him if we had to.
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