(Testimony of Winston G. , Accompanied By Fred B. Smith, Lawson)
Mr. Smith.
I have in mind what he said and I will check on it right away. Unless I come back and make some point about it, why you can rest assured that there will be no problem.
Representative Ford.
Will you call the attention of the Commission to what you find out, whether it should or should not be in the record?
Mr. Smith.
Yes, I will. May I tell Mr. Stern?
Representative Ford.
Surely.
Mr. Stern.
Were you aware of a suggestion that a vehicle with representatives of the Dallas homicide squad be in the motorcade, I believe behind the Vice President's car, a decision that was changed just before November 22? Can you tell us anything about that?
Mr. Lawson.
I believe I recall some mention of them asking--I don't remember if they asked if there should be a car or not but I believe there was some mention that there be a car, that they could have a car in the back there. This was not usual procedure. In New York it is, and on foreign trips it is.
Mr. Dulles.
I understood that car was to be between the lead car I think and the President's car, was it not, or is it between--no, between the lead car and the President's car.
Mr. Stern.
I haven't yet seen the transcript of yesterday's session, sir, and I am not quite sure.
Representative Ford.
My recollection is that it was to follow the President's car, either behind the followup car or behind the Vice President's car.
Mr. Dulles.
We can check that. It is somewhere in there. I have a feeling it was ahead of the President's car but I may be wrong.
Mr. Stern.
I understand we have been advised that at one point there was such an arrangement and that this was changed, and that Captain Fritz, the head of the Homicide Division, who was to ride in that car, went instead at someone's request to the Trade Mart where he was to participate in security at the speaker's table. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Lawson.
I remember it being mentioned. Whether it was a request or whether they had already laid it on I do not know, but I do remember it being mentioned that they could have a car if it was so desired.
Mr. Stern.
If they desired?
Mr. Lawson.
I don't recall if it was that they would put it in if we wanted it or if they said that they definitely would put it in or what.
But it was mentioned, and I hadn't thought of this since. That is why I am a little hazy on it. But I don't know even who cancelled it, whether they did or whether we had just said well it is not the normal procedure so that they did. But as far as Captain Fritz going to the Trade Mart, I don't know anything about that.
Mr. Stern.
But you did say, I take it, it is normal procedure in New York?
Mr. Lawson.
In New York, New York has a special squad of people. One of their main functions is protection of foreign dignitaries when they come to visit the U.N. or for any other reason. These people are used----
Mr. Dulles.
Do we give more protection to foreign dignitaries than we do to our own Chief of State?
Mr. Lawson.
Is that a question for me?
Mr. Dulles.
That is a question.
Mr. Lawson.
No, sir; I don't believe we do. I don't believe the security, the advance security arrangements, are quite as stringent.
Mr. Stern.
This New York procedure is something you have worked out with the New York authorities?
Mr. Lawson.
I am not aware of the policy arrangements that were made. I do know that there is a detective car used in New York quite often filled with this special detail of men.
Mr. Stern.
Do they have a special responsibility in the motorcade?
Mr. Lawson.
They act as Secret Service agents act in the motorcade. They help out if there is a stop and we need extra men and so forth. But I am not aware of why they are there. It wasn't my decision that they be there.
Mr. Dulls.
Could I ask one question right there. Whose duty is it, whose responsibility is it to decide how many of these cars will be in the motorcade, how many protective cars let me may? I am not speaking of cars for dignitaries or
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