(Testimony of Winston G. , Accompanied By Fred B. Smith, Lawson)
Mr. Lawson.
Service agent in conjunction with local police authorities, to watch him. If it was a function where it was by invitation only or there was some kind of control as to how the people got in, you would make sure that he did not get in because you were watchful of the ticketholders, et cetera.
However, the function was to be handled; if it was a ball park where anyone could buy a ticket to go in, then we would just have to have the man watched, or perhaps the local police themselves somehow could keep him from going to that ball park. But I as an agent could not.
Mr. Dulles.
Even if the President were in attendance in the ball park?
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir; unless there was some reason that I could have him arrested, I would not be able to do so. But I would have him watched if I knew that there might be a threat.
Mr. Dulles.
Am I asking questions that should go to counsel?
Mr. Smith.
I don't have any disagreement with what Agent Lawson has said so far.
Mr. Dulles.
Is there not some confusion of jurisdiction though here?
Mr. Mccloy.
Isn't the panel studying this?
Mr. Stern.
We are.
Mr. Mccloy.
That is what I thought. The panel is working on the law.
Mr. Dulles.
You are working on the law?
Mr. Stern.
Yes.
Mr. Dulles.
You have got all the evidence that you want?
Mr. Stern.
Yes; and there is a large area where Federal jurisdiction does not exist except on some strained theory of conspiracy. There is no substantive Federal jurisdiction with respect to great areas.
Mr. Lawson.
Might I add one thing please. The White House detail agents are supposed to protect the life of the President wherever he is. If there is a shot from the crowd or something happens, whether the President is hit or not, get him away, get him out, and still protect him. However, if you were riding on a car and actually saw someone do something, and you were able to get to that individual, you would then hold that person. But a White House detail agent would not drop the President and then go look for someone who might have tried to harm him at the time that he is there. That is not our function.
Mr. Stern.
Tuning now to the question of the motorcade route, Mr. Lawson, what can you tell us about how that was selected?
Mr. Lawson.
On November 8 when Mr. Kellerman was giving me some of the information on the proposed trip to Dallas, all of the advance agents for the respective stops were given the current itinerary as prepared by the White House staff for their stops, and for the Dallas stop there was a 45 minute time lapse from the time the President landed at the airport until the time that he attended the luncheon, and at the time that I left Washington, it had not been decided whether he would attend this luncheon at the Trade Mart where it later was planned to have it, or at the Women's Building on the Fair Grounds. And this figured a great deal in the parade route, the 45 minutes.
Mr. Stern.
The 45 minute time interval?
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Stern.
Was established for you by the White House?
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Stern.
And were you specifically instructed to prepare a parade route or was this your reaction to the time lag?
Mr. Lawson.
This is my function. I wasn't specifically asked to, but this would be the function of the advance agent.
Mr. Stern.
Were you instructed that there would be a motorcade?
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Stern.
And that is what this 45 minutes was for?
Mr. Lawson.
That is correct.
Mr. Stern.
How was the actual route determined then once the Trade Mart had been selected as the site for the luncheon?
Mr. Lawson.
Various routes were under consideration. We could have gone from the airport direct to the Trade Mart the way that we should have returned, the 4 mile route returning from the Trade Mart to the airport, or we
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