Mr. Curry.

There were a great number of police reservists and detectives and uniformed officers, I think there was a total, I believe of about 74 men in this area between the jail office and the immediate area where he would be loaded.

Mr. Rankin.

How large an area was that?

Mr. Curry.

Well, where he would be brought out of the Jail office to put him in this car, would be, I would say, 15 or 20 feet, and then this building, this ramp runs from one street to the other, and the parking area would cover a block wide and perhaps 150 feet deep.

Mr. Rankin.

Were there cars in the parking area?

Mr. Curry.

Some cars were them. They had been searched out, all of them. All of the vehicles had been searched, and all the, where the airconditioning ducts were, they had all been searched, every place where a person could conceal himself had been searched out.

Mr. Rankin.

Was there a plan for an armored car?

Mr. Curry.

Yes, sir; there was.

Mr. Rankin.

What happened about that?

Mr. Curry.

After they had gotten the armored car down there, in talking with Captain Fritz, and here again this prisoner was his responsibility and I don't want to be in a position of just overriding him, and I was willing to trust his judgment, he had been doing this for, like I say, nearly 40 years, and he said, "Chief, I would prefer not to use that armored car, I don't know who the driver is. It is awkward to handle and if anybody tries to do anything to us, I am afraid we would be surrounded. I would prefer to put him in a police car with some of my men following him, and get in and just take him right down Main Street and slip him into the jail."
So I said, "It will be all right with me if you want to do it that way but let's not say anything about this."

Mr. Rankin.

Now the armored car was not a Dallas police car, was it?

Mr. Curry.

No; it was not.

Mr. Rankin.

It was one you were arranging to get from----

Mr. Curry.

I believe his name was Mr. Sherrell, who was the manager of the Armored Motor Service there in Dallas.

Mr. Rankin.

And they would furnish a driver with it?

Mr. Curry.

Yes.

Mr. Rankin.

What else was done, if anything?

Mr. Curry.

We went ahead with our plans and we instructed the officers that would be involved in this transfer they would go east on Commerce Street, north to Elm Street, west on Elm Street to Houston Street, and then back south on Houston to the rear entrance of the county jail.

Mr. Rankin.

How many officers would be involved in the transfer?

Mr. Curry.

In the actual transfer, I would think perhaps 15 or 18 besides the men that were stationed at the intersections downtown.

Mr. Rankin.

How far would it be from your police department to the county jail?

Mr. Curry.

I would say 12-15 blocks.

Mr. Rankin.

Were there any other precautions you haven't described?

Mr. Curry.

No, sir; that is about all I know of, except that Captain Fritz wanted to transfer the prisoner in his car, with some of his detectives. This is not unusual. He has transferred many, many prisoners, especially where there is--it is an unusual case involving more than the ordinary routine crime, so it is not anything unusual to transfer him, for him to transfer prisoners.
But, it was then suggested or arranged that they would put his car in a position behind the armored car that we would bring the prisoner out, put him in his car, and he would have two detectives in the back seat with him, plus one driver and two or three detectives following him immediately and there was supposed to be another car to pick. up and go with them or get into a car van with these two.
They would follow the armored motor car and no one would know that he was not in the armored motor car except the reporters downstairs when they saw him come out. They would see he was placed in a car instead of the armored car, and we planned to let the armored car go over the predetermined route, but that Captain Fritz, when he got to Main Street, as you go east on