Mr. Eisenberg.

Now, would that grip in itself in any way interfere with the action of the pistol--the revolver?

Mr. Cunningham.

I don't know what he means by that.

Mr. Eisenberg.

If he means what he says, that is, if he got a secure grip on the butt--

Mr. Cunningham.

If he got a secure grip on the butt, that would take him away.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Take him away from what?

Mr. Cunningham.

That would take him away from the cylinder. If you are fighting over a weapon, the first thing is to get it off of you and then get hold of the cylinder. And then you can get both hands on the gun to jerk it away. That is what I would go.
As I say, it is the way we are taught. You want to get the gun off of you first, so you are not in direct line, and then go in and attempt to get it away from the person.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Now, suppose the gun was pulled away from Oswald as Oswald had his grip on the trigger, so that he could not get the trigger through the complete cycle. Would there be a snapping noise made?

Mr. Cunningham.

Definitely. If you locked the cylinder and jerked it away, you would get a snapping noise.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Suppose you did not lock the cylinder, but for some reason or other the full trigger cycle was not gone through?

Mr. Cunningham.

Then you would also get it. It would be difficult, but you could get it.

Mr. Eisenberg.

How hard do you have to pull on that trigger in order to fire the weapon?

Mr. Cunningham.

For double action--that is, without cocking, it is approximately 11 to 12 pounds, which is normal for this type of weapon.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Now, I handed you earlier four cartridge cases in a plastic envelope marked Q-74, Q-75, Q-76, and Q-77, also marked C47-C50. Are you familiar with these cartridge cases?

Mr. Cunningham.

I am. I have previously looked at them.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Do they have your mark on them?

Mr. Cunningham.

They do. Right on the side of each one, right there.

Mr. Eisenberg.

When did you receive these cartridge cases?

Mr. Cunningham.

These cartridge cases were received from the Dallas office of the FBI on November 30, 1963.

Mr. Eisenberg.

For the record, I would like to state that these cartridge cases were found in the immediate proximity of the site at which Officer Tippit was killed. They were found on the ground near the street where Officer Tippit was killed on November 22.

Representative Ford.

These are the ones that were found in the street near the automobile?

Mr. Eisenberg.

Well, either in the street or in a lawn in front of a private residence, or semiapartment house.

Representative Ford.

I see. In other words, they were possibly some of those that were on the lawn in the front of 400?

Mr. Eisenberg.

Yes, sir; again, for the record only, since this witness is unable to testify as to where they were picked up. The mechanism of this revolver is such that the shells are not ejected until the user decides to eject them--unlike a bolt-action rifle where the cartridge must be ejected where you shoot from.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to have these four cartridge cases introduced into evidence as 594.

Representative Ford.

They may be admitted.
(The articles referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 594, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Eisenberg.

Now, Mr. Cunningham, could you describe the make of these cartridge cases?

Mr. Cunningham.

Two Of these cartridge cases are Remington-Peters .38 Special cartridge cases. The other two cartridge cases are Western .38 Special cartridge cases.