Mr. Cunningham.

Do you want me to describe it as it is today?

Mr. Eisenberg.

As it is today.

Mr. Cunningham.

As it is today, it is a .38 Special Smith and Wesson, Victory Model revolver.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And was it always a .38 Special?

Mr. Cunningham.

No, it was not. Originally this weapon was known as a .38-200 British Service revolver. In this country the weapon would be known as a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver, Victory Model. However, the
British gave the designation .38-200 to it.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Was this revolver made in the United States?

Mr. Cunningham.

It was.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And has it been in England subsequent to that?

Mr. Cunningham.

Yes.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And how can you tell that, Mr. Cunningham?

Mr. Cunningham.

Well, first of all, all weapons going into England have to be proofed. They are proofed at, usually, the Birmingham proofhouse.

Representative Ford.

What does that mean?

Mr. Cunningham.

They are tested for whether they will withstand a certain charge. They place in the cylinders overloaded cartridges, and they are fired, in the cylinder, as this one has been. It has been proofed to 3 1/2 tons. Each chamber in the cylinder has been proofed.
You can tell that, because each chamber has been stamped with the Birmingham proofmark, indicating that each chamber in the cylinder has been proofed.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Cunningham, could you explain to us the difference be tween a .38 S&W and a .38 Special?

Mr. Cunningham.

They are completely different cartridges. One cartridge is a .38 Special, and the other cartridge is a .38 S&W, or actually written out it would be Smith and Wesson. It was developed for their weapons, and it is quite an old cartridge, and it is known--usually as appears on a box of ammunition as merely a .38 S&W. However, there are many differences in the cartridges.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Have you brought two--an example of each type of cartridge with you?

Mr. Cunningham.

I have. First of all, this is actually a Western .38 S&W cartridge. You will see the head stamping on the base of this cartridge signifies it to be a .38 S&W.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Before you go any further--Mr. Chairman, may I have this marked as an exhibit-- this specimen?
I am holding a cartridge marked Western .38 S&W, and it is submitted as Commission Exhibit 587.

The Chairman.

It may be admitted.
(The article referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 587, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Cunningham.

If you would care to see one broken down, I have one with me. That is the same cartridge where the bullet has been pulled and the powder has been dumped out.

Mr. Eisenberg.

That is also a .38 S&W cartridge, but it has been disassembled into a bullet and a cartridge case?

Mr. Cunningham.

That is correct. The bullet has been pulled out of the cartridge case and the powder removed.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as an exhibit?

The Chairman.

It may be. What is the number?

Mr. Eisenberg.

That will be 588.

The Chairman.

It will be admitted as Commission Exhibit 588.
(The article referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 588, and received in evidence.)

Mr. Cunningham.

This particular cartridge, which is one complete cartridge, is a Remington- Peters .38 S&W. These two components actually are of the same cartridge. All I have done is pull the bullet, and it is also a Remington-Peters .38 S&W.

Mr. Eisenberg.

That is the same cartridge as Exhibits 588 and 587?