Mr. Eisenberg.

Why is there this difference between familiarity with the bolt and familiarity with the trigger in dry firing?

Mr. Simmons.

There tends to be a reaction between the firer and the weapon at the time the weapon is fired, due to the recoil impulse. And I do not believe the action of the bolt going home would sufficiently simulate the action of the recoil of the weapon.

Mr. Eisenberg.

One further question.
Looking at the figures for aiming error, as discounted by round-to-round dispersion, how would you characterize the actual performance of men with this rifle that is, not the accuracy of the weapon, but the accuracy of man and weapon.

Mr. Simmons.

I am not sure I understand your question.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Do you feel on the basis of the aiming error, discounted for round-to-round dispersion or including it, that this weapon is an easy one with which to be accurate, or a difficult one?

Mr. Simmons.

It appears to be relatively conventional in that regard, I assume. The telescope helps in the accuracy against a target which is well displayed, as was the case here. And the weapon is reasonably conventional. So that I think it would not be significantly different from any other weapon.

Mr. Mccloy.

If you were having a dry run with this, you could certainly make yourself used to the drag in the trigger without discharging the rifle, could you not?

Mr. Simmons.

Yes. But there are two stages to the trigger. Our riflemen were all used to a trigger with a constant pull. When the slack was taken up, then they expected the round to fire. But actually when the slack is taken up, you tend to have a hair trigger here, which requires a bit of getting used to.

Mr. Mccloy.

This does not have a hair trigger after the slack is taken up?

Mr. Simmons.

This tends to have the hair trigger as soon as you move it after the slack is taken up. You achieve or you feel greater resistance to the movement of the trigger, and then ordinarily you would expect the weapon to have fired, and in this case then as you move it to overcome that, it fires immediately. And our firers were moving the shoulder into the weapon.

Mr. Mccloy.

I have no further questions.

Mr. Eisenberg.

That is all.

Mr. Mccloy.

Thank you very much. You have been very helpful. We shall recess now until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 5:25 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

Mr. Mccloy.

Wednesday, April 1, 1964

Testimony of Cortlandt Cunningham

Testimony of Joseph D. Nicol

Testimony of Cortlandt Cunningham

Mr. Mccloy.

The President's Commission met at 9 a.m. on April 1, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE. Washington. D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and Mr. Allen W. Dulles, members.
Also present were Melvin Aron Eisenberg, assistant counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel; Charles Murray and Charles Rhyne, observers.
Cortlandt Cunningham
TESTIMONY OF CORTLANDT CUNNINGHAM

The Chairman.

The Commission will be in order.
Mr. Cunningham, the purpose of today's hearing is to take the testimony of yourself and Mr. Joseph Nicol. We understand that you are a firearms expert with the FBI, and Mr. Nicol is a firearms expert with the Bureau of Criminal