Mr. Frazier.

scratches which may have been caused by firing or dirt on a cartridge or something which may have scratched the firing pin.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Are firing-pin marks usually as characteristic of a given cartridge case as the primer marks?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; I would say they are as characteristic. However, they may not always be as evident, they may not be seen as readily. However, they are just as characteristic.

Mr. Mccloy.

Just to repeat again, what is this side of this picture? What does this represent?

Mr. Frazier.

That represents the rifle cartridge.

Mr. Mccloy.

The rifle cartridge itself?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

And this on the right?

Mr. Frazier.

This is one of the three cartridge cases recovered from the building, Exhibit 544.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Frazier, you fired two test cartridges in the rifle, is that correct?

Mr. Frazier.

We fired several test cartridge cases. These two are the ones that were used in the comparisons.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Did you fire several for possible comparison purposes, or only two for possible comparison purposes?

Mr. Frazier.

Those we fired were in the time-fire test and we retained some of those for possible use in comparing, but it was not necessary to use them, actually.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Did you use both of these test cartridge cases in the photo graphs, or only one of them?

Mr. Frazier.

I could not tell by these photographs. We did not make any distinction when we were comparing tests with the evidence as to which test cartridge case we were using.

Mr. Eisenberg.

When you made your selection among cartridge cases to select the items which would be used as test cases for comparison purposes, were the items you rejected much different from those you selected?

Mr. Frazier.

No. The marks were generally the same on all of them. Those we used in this comparison were two tests which we fired on November 23d and used them in our tests-made our examination, our identification.
Later on we fired accuracy tests and speed tests and retained some of those cartridge cases, but they were not necessarily retained for test purposes, for identification of the weapon, but merely as a result of the other tests that were made.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Could you just as easily have used other of the items from your original November twenty---

Mr. Frazier.

Oh, yes; yes.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Getting to the last cartridge case, Exhibit 545, did you take a photograph of the exhibit together with the test case under the microscope after making your identification?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; I did. This photograph shows that cartridge case 545 on the right, and the test cartridge case from the rifle, 139, on the left.

Mr. Eisenberg.

This is marked on the right C-38 and on the left C-14?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Again this is a photograph taken by you or under your supervision?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And that is of the primer?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; it

Mr. Eisenberg.

And you have a second photograph here also, marked C-14 and C-38, also taken by you or under your supervision?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And this is of the markings of the firing pin?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; it is.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Can you give us the magnification first of the primer-markings photograph?