Mr. Eisenberg.

I now hand you a cartridge in an envelope, marked Commission Exhibit 141. Are you familiar with this cartridge?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; I am. I received this cartridge for examination in the FBI laboratory, submitted to me as a cartridge removed from the rifle at the time it was recovered.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Can you describe that cartridge in terms of name, manufacturer, and country of origin?

Mr. Frazier.

It is a 6.5 mm. Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge, manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co, at East Alto, Ill.
It is loaded with a full metal-jacketed bullet of the military type. Cartridges of this type which I have examined, having this type of bullet, have bullets weighing 160 to 161 grains.

Mr. Mccloy.

When you mentioned that cartridge as being a Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge, could that be fired, for example, in a Mannlicher 6.5 Schoenauer?

Mr. Frazier.

I am not familiar with that.

Mr. Mccloy.

That is the normal sporting rifle that Mannlicher Schoenauer is the normal 6.5 Austrian sporting rifle that you buy. I just wondered if it was the same cartridge.

Mr. Frazier.

I am sorry. I don't know whether there is a distinction between these two or not.

Mr. Mccloy.

I happen to have one of those. And I was just wondering if it is the same cartridge.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Frazier, I now hand you a series of three cartridge cases. I ask you whether you are familiar with these cartridge cases.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; I am. I received these cartridge cases on two different occasions for examination in the laboratory, and comparison with the rifle.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Do these cases have your mark on them?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; they do. Each is marked with my initials and the inscription for identification purposes.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce these cartridge cases into evidence as Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545.

Mr. Mccloy.

They may be admitted.
(The articles referred to were marked Commission Exhibits No. 543, 544, and 545 and received in evidence.)

Mr. Mccloy.

Will you introduce evidence to show where they came from?

Mr. Eisenberg.

Well, sir, the record will show at the conclusion of the hearings where they came from. This witness is able to identify them only as to his examination.

Mr. Mccloy.

I understand that. I understand that witness cannot identify them. But I simply asked for the record whether you have evidence to show where they did come from.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Yes; for the record, these cartridges were found on the sixth. floor of the School Book Depository Building. They were found near the south east corner window--that is, the easternmost window on the southern face of the sixth floor of that building.

Mr. Frazier, are these cartridge cases which have just been admitted into evidence the same type of cartridge-- from the same type of cartridge as you just examined, Commission Exhibit No. 141?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; they are.

Mr. Eisenberg.

That is, 6.5 mm. Mannlicher-Carcano, manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co.?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

You gave the weight of the bullet which is found in this type of cartridge. Could you give us a description of the contour of the bullet, and its length?

Mr. Frazier.

The bullet has parallel sides, with a round nose, is fully jacketed with a copper-alloy coating or metal jacket on the outside of a lead core. Its diameter is 6.65 millimeters. The length--possibly it would be better to put it in inches rather than millimeters The diameter is .267 inches, and a length of 1.185, or approximately 1.2 inches.

Mr. Mccloy.

You say that the diameter is 6.65. Did you mean 6.65 or 6.5 millimeters?