Mr. Frazier.

6.5 mm. barrel. Photographs of the weapons are similar, unless you make a very particular study of the photographs of the original model 38 Italian military rifle, which is 7.35 mm.
Early in the Second World War, however, the Italian Government barreled many of these rifles with a 6.5 mm. barrel, since they had a quantity of that ammunition on hand. I presume that would be the most logical way of confusing this weapon with one of a larger caliber.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And is the 6.5 caliber weapon distinguished from the 7.35-caliber weapon by name?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, it is; it is by the model number. The model 91/38 designates the 6.5 mm. rifle, whereas the model 38 designates the 7.35.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Have you taken photographs of the various markings on the rifle?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, I did.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Do you have those with you?

Mr. Frazier.

Actually, I think we forwarded those photographs to the Commission.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Are these the photographs that you took, or had taken?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Has the Federal Bureau of Investigation been supplied with information concerning the meanings and significances of these various markings?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; we have.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Can you state the source of that information?

Mr. Frazier.

This information came to us by mail as a result of an inquiry of the Italian Armed Forces Intelligence Service, abbreviated SIFAR, by letter dated March 26, 1964, through the FBI representative in Rome, Italy.
This information is classified as secret by the Italian Government, who have advised that the material may be released to the Commission. However, they desire the retention of the information in a secret category.

The Chairman.

Is this essential to the proof?
If it is not, I think we would rather not have it, because the fewer things We have to keep in secret, the better the situation is for us.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Eisenberg.

Back on the record.
Based on your experience with firearms, is the placement of a specific serial number on a weapon generally confined to one weapon of a given type?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, it is. Particularly--may I refer to foreign weapons particularly?
The serial number consists of a series of numbers which normally will be repeated. However, a prefix is placed before the number, which actually must be part of the serial number, consisting of a letter.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Have you been able to confirm that the serial number on this weapon is the only such number on such a weapon?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, it is.

Mr. Eisenberg.

All. right.

Now, without reference to any classified information, could you briefly describe the markings shown on these photographs?

Mr. Frazier.

The first photograph is an overall photograph of the rifle.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Excuse me.
These photographs--when you say "first photograph"--these photographs are marked No. 1, No. 2, et cetera, on the back.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, they are.
Photograph No. 1 is an overall photograph of the rifle.
Photograph No. 2 is made of the top of the barrel, showing the serial number C2766.
Photograph No. 3 is also of the top of the rifle, showing a portion of the inscription on the telescopic sight, and the figures 1940, which is the manufacturer's date, the words "Made Italy" and a figure in the form of a crown, under that the letters "R-E," and then a portion of the word "Terni."

Mr. Eisenberg.

Can you explain the significance of "Terni?"