Mr. Ball.

Can you take this and point out about where the crease was on 509?
Now, was there anything you saw over in the corner?

Mr. Mooney.

No, sir; I didn't see anything over in the corner. I did see this one partially eaten piece of fried chicken laying over to the right. It looked like he was facing--

Mr. Ball.

Tell us where you found it?

Mr. Mooney.

It would be laying over on the top of these other boxes. This here is kind of blurred.

Mr. Ball.

We will get to that in a moment. Now, I show you 510.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 510 for identification.)

Mr. Ball.

Is that the empty shells you found?

Mr. Mooney.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Are they shown there?

Mr. Mooney.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, will you take this and encircle the shells?

Mr. Mooney.

All right.

Mr. Ball.

Put a fairly good sized circle around each shell. That is the way they were when you saw them, is that right?

Mr. Mooney.

Yes, sir. I assume that this possibly could have been the first shot.

Mr. Ball.

You cannot speculate about that?

Mr. Mooney.

You cannot speculate about that.

Mr. Ball.

Those were empty shells?

Mr. Mooney.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

They were turned over to Captain Fritz?

Mr. Mooney.

Yes, sir; he was the first officer that picked them up, as far as I know, because I stood there and watched him go over and pick them up and look at them. As far as I could tell, I couldn't even tell what caliber they were, because I didn't get down that close to them. They were brass cartridges, brass shells.

Mr. Ball.

Is this the position of the cartridges as shown on 510, as you saw them?

Mr. Mooney.

Yes, sir. That is just about the way they were laying, to the best of my knowledge. I do know there was--one was further away, and these other two were relatively close together--on this particular area. But these cartridges--this one and this one looks like they are further apart than they actually was.

Mr. Ball.

Which ones?

Mr. Mooney.

This one and this one.

Mr. Ball.

Now, two cartridges were close together, is that right?

Mr. Mooney.

The one cartridge here, by the wall facing, is right. And this one and this one, they were further away from this one.

Mr. Ball.

Well--

Mr. Mooney.

But as to being positive of the exact distance

Mr. Ball.

You think that the cartridges are in the same position as when you saw them in this picture 510?

Mr. Mooney.

As far as my knowledge, they are; pretty close to right.

Mr. Ball.

Well, we will label these cartridges, the empty shells as "A", "B", and "C."
Now, I didn't quite understand---did you say it was your memory that "A" and "B" were not that close together?

Mr. Mooney.

Just from my memory, it seems that this cartridge ought to have been over this way a little further.

Mr. Ball.

You mean the "B" cartridge should be closer to the "C?"

Mr. Mooney.

Closer to the "C"; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, I have another picture here which I should like to have marked as 511.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 511 for identification.)

Mr. Ball.

Does this appear to be--- first of all, does that appear-----