Mr. Ball.

When you left the first floor with the officers, was Norman still there?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; he was in the building.

Mr. Ball.

And was Jarman still there?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

I would like to offer all of the exhibits that we marked so far into evidence.

Mr. Dulles.

Could you give me the numbers?

Mr. Ball.

I think they run 483 to 492, inclusive.

Mr. Dulles.

Was 481 introduced?

Mr. Ball.

If 481 and 482 were not, we offer them. 483 is a diagram of the sixth floor. We offer that. Everything this morning from 477 to 492 we offer in evidence. The last number is 492.

Mr. Dulles.

All exhibits subsequent to the last exhibit noted in the record up to and including 492 will be admitted.
(The material heretofore marked Exhibits Nos. 481 through 492, inclusive, previously marked for identification, were received in evidence.)

Mr. Mccloy.

I have some questions.
When you came downstairs, do you remember seeing a man named Brennan, and did a man named Brennan identify you downstairs?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; I don't remember that.

Mr. Mccloy.

No one that you know-no one said, "This is the man I have seen on the fifth floor window?"

Mr. Williams.

No, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

Were you physically kept from leaving the building when you got downstairs? Did you try to go out of the building?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; I wasn't trying to go out of the building because there wasn't any use of trying to, because at the time we arrived on the first floor, I heard an officer shout out and say, "No one leave the building."

Mr. Mccloy.

Have you got any appreciation of the time that elapsed between your hearing the first shot and the time that you got finally down to the first floor, after you had been on the fifth floor and the fourth floor?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; I could not give you any time.

Mr. Mccloy.

Well, you did not give us any time. Do you have any recollection now of about how long that was? Was it 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes? How long did it take from the time that you were looking out that window and you heard that shot until you did get down to the first floor?

Mr. Williams.

Well, I could say approximately 15 minutes, maybe a little before then, maybe after. I could not say exactly.

Mr. Dulles.

Do you know what time it was when you went off and left for the police station?

Mr. Williams.

I could not give you the exact time.

Mr. Mccloy.

Do you know whether or not anybody got out of the building

before the police could get there? Did any of your friends or the people you were working with, did you hear whether any of them had left the building before the building was closed?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; I heard Mr. Truly-he said that-he mentioned that-he said, "Where is Lee?" That is what everybody called him. "Where is Lee?", he said, and therefore I assume he did not know where Lee was, that he was out of the building, because everybody else was there. And there was another colored fellow by the name of Charles Givens. He wasn't in the building at the time. He was downtown somewhere.
Mr. McCLOY. Had he been at the building at the time of the shooting--Givens?

Mr. Williams.

I don't believe he had.

Mr. Dulles.

What did Mr. Truly say about Lee not being there?

Mr. Williams.

The only thing I heard him say is--I think an officer asked him, "Is everyone here?" And he said, "Where is Lee?"--like that, you know.

Mr. Dulles.

Mr. Truly said that?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

Do you know the name of the first policeman that accosted you, who stopped you?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir.