Mr. Brennan.

is just like looking through a window pane. The upper part is just regular clear.

Mr. Dulles.

Do you have some questions, Mr. McCloy?

Mr. Mccloy.

Yes; I have some questions.
You said you went across the street after having sort of jumped off this retaining wall in order to protect yourself against the possible fusilade of shots.

Mr. Brennan.

Right.

Mr. Mccloy.

Then you went across and picked up a police officer, is that right?

Mr. Brennan.

Right, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

And then you went with him to the steps of the Texas School Book Depository?

Mr. Brennan.

Eventually, yes.

Mr. Mccloy.

How long did it take you, do you think, from the time of the--when you first got up-- from the time of the last shot, how long would you estimate it would be before you got to the steps of the Texas Book Depository?

Mr. Brennan.

I could not calculate that, because before I got to the steps of the Texas Book Store, I had already talked to this officer, and he had taken me to the Secret Service men, I had talked to them.

Mr. Mccloy.

And you stayed behind the retaining wall for a little while until you saw the coast was clear?

Mr. Brennan.

Just seconds. I would say from the time the last shot was fired, and me diving off the wall there, and getting around on the solid side, and then running across to the officer, the time element is hard to figure, but it would still be in seconds.

Mr. Mccloy.

Then when you got to the officer he took you to a Secret Service man, and then the Secret Service man and you were on the steps of the depository?

Mr. Brennan.

Yes.
Well, we talked at the car, and then when these two colored guys came down the stairway onto the street, I pointed to them, and identified them as being the two that was in the floor below that floor. And then Mr. Sorrels, I think, had to give some orders to someone in the book store. He walked me up the steps, and I stood on the top landing.

Mr. Mccloy.

When you were standing on those steps, did you see anyone pass you, or anyone that you could recognize as being--as looking somewhat like

the man that you had seen in the window with the rifle?

Mr. Brennan.

No, I did not.

Mr. Dulles.

Did you give any estimate was it a matter of 5 minutes, 6 minutes, 7 minutes? In general, how long did it take you from the time that you left where you were protecting yourself to the time you were on the front steps? What order of magnitude? 10 minutes?

Mr. Brennan.

No; it was a shorter time than that.
I talked to Mr. Sorrels--I believe it was Mr. Sorrels--and the Secret Service men there I don't believe I talked to them more than 3 to 5 minutes.

Mr. Mccloy.

But you had prior to that time talked to the police officer?

Mr. Brennan.

Yes.

Mr. Mccloy.

You said the police officer said, "Wait a minute."

Mr. Brennan.

Yes.

Mr. Mccloy.

How long was that?

Mr. Brennan.

That was quick, too. He gave his orders to some one on that side of the building, and then he had taken me to the Secret Service man.

Mr. Mccloy.

Did you have the feeling that the police had put a cordon around the building, and were they keeping people in, or were people coming in and out while you were there?

Mr. Brennan.

Well, I did, by the time I got on the steps of the Texas Book Store I felt like that the place was completely surrounded and blocked by then. But at the time I ran across to this officer, I may have been completely wrong, they may have the Secret Service men and police department, too, may have been directing their search to the building, but I felt as though they were directing their search to the west side of the building.