Mrs. Paine.

or in the kitchen speaking Russian to the De Mohrenschildts. I listened more than I spoke in that situation.

Mr. Jenner.

When Mr. Oswald was in the living room with you ladies and gentlemen, the conversation was in English, was it not?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

I take it, then, that when Marina returned to the room Russian was spoken, at least by those who had command of the Russian language.

Mrs. Paine.

When she was in the same room, there was more than one conversation going on, and in two languages.

Mr. Jenner.

When anybody spoke to Marina--

Mrs. Paine.

It was in Russian.

Mr. Jenner.

It was in Russian. When people spoke with each other other than with Marina, it was in English, is that correct?

Mrs. Paine.

That is my best recollection.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, in very short compass what was your impression of Mr. Oswald at that initial party?

Mrs. Paine.

I thought he was pleased to be interesting to this group of people and glad to tell them about his experience, to answer their questions. He seemed open and forthright. I did wonder as he was talking about it whether he had come to the conclusion after being in the Soviet Union that their system was inferior.

Mr. Jenner.

Inferior to ours?

Mrs. Paine.

To ours, or whether he still thought that the Soviet system was a better one. His discussion of the censorship made me feel that he wanted his listeners to know that he was not blind to the defects of the Soviet system, but it did not convince me that he was in favor of the American system. I was left wondering which country he thought conducted itself better.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you have an interest in the Oswalds at this moment wholly apart from your interest in the Russian language?

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Were you intellectually curious about them is all I meant.

Mrs. Paine.

Oh, yes. Well, it is most unusual to take such a step as he took.

Mr. Jenner.

Had you had some notice in advance of this meeting, Mrs. Paine, of the fact that Mr. Oswald was at least--there had been publications of his having been a defector?

Mrs. Paine.

No; I wasn't aware of that.

Mr. Jenner.

When did you first learn of that?

Mrs. Paine.

Well, a name is always given to someone who goes to the Soviet Union and wants to have citizenship there, isn't it, so I could well have assumed that there had been such, but I really didn't learn about it until after the assassination. I guess. No; I take it back. There was a reference now.

Mr. Jenner.

That evening?

Mrs. Paine.

Specific recall. It is coming. The content of Robert's letter to him, as I recall, included a clipping from the Fort Worth newspapers relative to his defection.

Mr. Jenner.

Excuse me, Mrs. Paine, you are talking about a letter of Robert Oswald's?

Mrs. Paine.

A letter from Robert to Lee which Lee never got but heard about when he came back to the States.

Mr. Jenner.

And that was the subject of discussion that evening?

Mrs. Paine.

That came up, so, therefore, I did know that he had been called a defector.

Mr. Jenner.

Did Robert refer to this letter or did someone in the meeting refer to the letter?

Mrs. Paine.

Lee referred to the letter in discussion of censorship.

Mr. Jenner.

But up until that moment, you had not had any prior impression with respect to whether he had been a defector or an attempted defector?

Mrs. Paine.

Well, I think, yes; I had some impression of that sort, but it came directly from Lee. He said he went to the Soviet Union and tried to give up his American citizenship, and as I recall, he said that the American embassy