Mr. Paine.

We have some tape in a drawer of my desk at the house, my recollection is that the tape is a 2-inch tape, gum tape.

Mr. Liebeler.

And the tape on the sack appears to be three?

Mr. Paine.

This is 3-inch.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you ever observe in your garage any scraps of paper or scraps of tape similar to the materials used to construct those sacks?

Mr. Paine.

No, I did not.

Mr. Liebeler.

Either before November 22, 1963, or afterwards?

Mr. Paine.

That is correct.

Mr. Liebeler.

When you moved the sacks, the blanket, the package that was wrapped in the blanket in your garage, were you able to determine whether or not the object inside the sack was also wrapped in paper?

Mr. Paine.

I would have said that it was not. When we practiced wrapping that rifle yesterday I would have guessed that any paper around the barrel in there, which I could feel with some clarity, would have crinkled.

Mr. Liebeler.

And to your recollection there was no crinkling in the package wrapped with the blanket?

Mr. Paine.

Yes. It was a very quiet package.

Mr. Liebeler.

Yesterday we did try to and did wrap the rifle previously referred to in our testimony in the blanket which you have just examined. Would you tell the Commission about that?

Mr. Paine.

I tried wrapping it to the shape and size and bulk that I remembered the package. I had a little difficulty, it got quite close to the right shape by wrapping it at an angle. The rifle was laid in the blanket somewhat on a bias to the rectangle blanket form. Then there was a small end of the barrel, I didn't discover how you could fold that over to tie it with string without making it bulkier than I remember. But the package came quite close to what I remembered.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now on the basis of wrapping that rifle in the blanket, would you say that it was probable, that the package that was in your garage was in fact that rifle wrapped in that blanket?

Mr. Paine.

Yes, I think it was or a rifle of that size.

Mr. Liebeler.

You said just a moment ago that you saw the rifle we have had here this morning or a similar rifle shown to Marina Oswald sometime shortly after the assassination. Would you tell us the circumstances surrounding that event?

Mr. Paine.

We went to the police station that evening, and probably about 9 o'clock, I saw the rifle being shown to Marina.

Mr. Liebeler.

This was at the Dallas police station?

Mr. Paine.

Dallas police station. Ruth was present, and Mamantov was present.

Representative Ford.

Who was the last one?

Mr. Paine.

Ilya Mamantov, I think Ilya is the first name, but Mr. Mamantov. He teaches part-time, part-time teaching in Russian, was familiar to Ruth as the son-in-law of her tutor.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you hear any of the conversation that was going on in the room in which Marina was being shown this rifle?

Mr. Paine.

No, no.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know whether or not your wife heard them?

Mr. Paine.

My wife, of course, was right there. And heard the whole thing.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did she subsequently tell you what occurred?

Mr. Paine.

Yes, she did.

Mr. Liebeler.

What did she tell you?

Mr. Paine.

She told me that Marina wasn't able to identify that rifle as the one that Lee had. She knew that Lee had a rifle, and I think she knew it was wrapped in a package like this. I think Ruth reported that she had, Marina had, opened up a corner of the blanket and looked in and seen part of the butt, and hadn't liked the idea of rifles, the rifles made her a little uncomfortable and hadn't looked at it further.

Mr. Liebeler.

This was at the time the rifle was presumably wrapped in the blanket in your garage, correct?

Mr. Paine.

I assumed that. I didn't ask that question.