Mr. Paine.

No; I do not know. Or I gather since he had such a funny idea of him over the phone.

Mr. Liebeler.

To the best of your Judgment the only way your father heard of Lee Oswald, connected Lee Oswald to you, was through a news broadcast that he had heard connecting Oswald with somebody named Paine?

Mr. Paine.

Or Marina had stayed with the Paines.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you ever discuss your father with Lee Oswald?

Mr. Paine.

No; I did not.

Mr. Liebeler.

And Oswald never asked you about your father in any way or did he indicate that he knew of your father?

Mr. Paine.

No; he did not. I think Ruth came closer to revealing that my father had--you will have to ask her about that question. I did not mention my father to Lee.

Mr. Liebeler.

When did you meet Lee Oswald?

Mr. Paine.

I met him sometime in the spring of 1963.

Mr. Dulles.

This is Oswald?

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes; Lee Oswald.

Mr. Paine.

We were invited to a party, Ruth and I were invited to a party, given by Everett Glover. I had a cold and wasn't able to go. Ruth went at that time and subsequently went once or twice to see Marina. And she invited Marina and Lee to our house for dinner, and here the date that comes to mind is April 10.

Mr. Dulles.

Where was Marina staying at this time?

Mr. Paine.

Berry Street.

Mr. Dulles.

Berry Street in Dallas.

Mr. Liebeler.

Berry Street or would it be Neely Street?

Mr. Paine.

Neely Street. So this was the first time I saw them. I had to go over, he didn't drive a car and I had to go over, and pick him up in my car and bring him back to the house. So I went over to Neely Street and saw them. Marina took about half an hour to pack all the things for Junie. Meanwhile I was talking to Lee at their house there.

Mr. Liebeler.

Would you tell us about that conversation?

Mr. Paine.

I asked him what he was doing, his job, and he showed me a picture on the wall, which was a piece of newspaper, I think--that is beside the point. I asked him about Russia, what he liked about.

Mr. Dulles.

Could we get that picture?

Mr. Paine.

I think it was beside the point. It was a piece of newspaper showing a fashion ad, I think. I think his job was--

Mr. Dulles.

Nothing to do with politics at all, to do with his job. I see.

Mr. Paine.

I asked him what he thought, I wanted to know why he had gone to Russia and why he had then come back. He had told me he had become a Marxist in this country without ever having met a Communist, by reading books and then he got to Russia, and--

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he tell you why he went to Russia?

Mr. Paine.

He said he wanted to go to Russia. He had chosen to go to Russia.

Mr. Liebeler.

He didn't elaborate on it?

Mr. Paine.

No; I gathered he had had an interest in going to Russia for a number of years prior to the time he got there and decided that that was the paradise of the world and through fortunate relations between this country and Russia at the time, I would have to remember history to know whether that was a warm, a friendly time or not, but he indicated both his going and his coming were fortunate times in history or something that made it possible for him to do these.

Mr. Dulles.

Fortunate times?

Mr. Paine.

Fortunate times, this was sort of an accident in history. This is what I gathered from his conversation.

Representative Ford.

Fortunate that he could leave at the time and fortunate that he could come back.

Mr. Paine.

Fortunate that he could be accepted to emigrate to Russia. He told me that he had--so he went to Russia and he tried to surrender his passport to the Russians but the State Department would not give it to him, or the consul