Mr. Specter.

Where were you standing at the time you observed the people on the overpass whom you have just described?

Mr. Rowland.

Position "B."

Mr. Specter.

At about what time was it when you observed those individuals?

Mr. Rowland.

This was between the time between 12:15 and 12:30. I think I looked more than once.

Mr. Specter.

How many times did you look?

Mr. Rowland.

I don't know really. I was more or less scanning the crowd.

Mr. Specter.

Did the individuals present on the triple overpass change at the various times when you looked in that direction?

Mr. Rowland.

I don't think so. I don't think anyone went off who was up there or anyone else went on.

Mr. Specter.

Will you now relate what occurred as the Presidential motorcade passed by you?

Mr. Rowland.

Well, the car turned the corner at Houston and Main. Everyone was rushing, pressing the cars, trying to get closer. There were quite a few people, you know, trying to run alongside of the car such as this; officers were trying to prevent this. The car turned--we had more or less a long period of time that they were within our sight considering some of the other people.
The car went down Houston, again turned on Elm, and it was proceeding down Elm when we heard the first of the reports. This I passed off as a backfire, so did practically everyone in the area because gobs of people, when I say gobs, I mean almost everyone in the vicinity, started laughing that couldn't see the motorcade. The motorcade was obscured from our vision by the crowd.

Mr. Specter.

What would the occasion be for laughter on the sound of a backfire?

Mr. Rowland.

I don't know. A lot of people laughed. I don't know. But a lot of people laughed, chuckled, such as this. Then approximately 5 seconds, 5 or 6 seconds, the second report was heard, 2 seconds the third report. After the second report, I knew what it was, and--

Mr. Specter.

What was it?

Mr. Rowland.

I knew that it was a gun firing.

Mr. Specter.

How did you know that?

Mr. Rowland.

I have been around guns quite a bit in my lifetime.

Mr. Specter.

Was the sound of the fire different from the first and second sounds you described?

Mr. Rowland.

No, that is just it. It did not sound as though there was any return fire in that sense.

Mr. Specter.

What do you mean by return fire?

Mr. Rowland.

That anyone fired back. You know, anyone in the procession such as our detectives or Secret Service men fired back at anything else. It gave the report of a rifle which most of the Secret Service men don't carry in a holster although I am sure they had some in the cars but the following two shots were the same report being of the same intensity, I state, because from a different position I know that the same rifle is not going to make the same sound in two different positions especially in a position such as it was, because of the ricocheting of sound and echo effects.

Mr. Specter.

What is your basis for saying that, Mr. Rowland, that the rifle would not make the same sound in two different positions?

Mr. Rowland.

This is due to a long study of sound and study of echo effects.

Mr. Specter.

When had you conducted that study?

Mr. Rowland.

In physics in the past 3 years.

Mr. Specter.

Have you read any special books on that subject?

Mr. Rowland.

Quite a few.

Mr. Specter.

Do you recollect any of the titles and authors?

Mr. Rowland.

No; I do not.

Mr. Specter.

Did you take any special courses which would give you insight into that subject matter?

Mr. Rowland.

This was more or less on my own initiative. The instructor gave me help and aided me when I requested this during my off periods of class.