Mr. Meyers.

Well, I met Jack Ruby originally, I would venture to say--now, I am guessing, it could vary a little bit--possibly 6 years ago, 6 or 7 years ago in that area, in the Carousel, in the club that he owned in Dallas.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you introduced to him by a common acquaintance?

Mr. Meyers.

No, no. What actually happened is--how much detail do You want me to go into ?

Mr. Griffin.

Give it to us generally and if that is not enough--

Mr. Meyers.

Yes. Of course if I go into greater detail--I was there on a business trip and footloose and fancy free and I wandered into his club this particular night. He greeted me at the door. I knew from his conversation, his diction, that he was not a Dallasite, a Texan. We talked, one thing led to another. He told me he was originally from Chicago and I, at that time, of course, lived in Chicago. So we had a happy meeting ground. We were both Chicagoans and we visited with each other the first time.

Mr. Griffin.

You mentioned this was 6 or 7 years ago?

Mr. Meyers.

In that area. I am not exactly certain.

Mr. Griffin.

I believe that Mr. Ruby actually opened the Carousel Club in

Mr. Meyers.

Well, then, that is when it was.

Mr. Griffin.

So it is clear in your mind that you met him at the Carousel?

Mr. Meyers.

At the Carousel. There is no question about this. You must understand one thing, Mr. Griffin. I guess I sound stupid in telling this. But I travel incessantly, as you know from trying to find me at various times, and sometimes I do lose track of time. Things get not necessarily vague, but they get mixed up in context.

Mr. Griffin.

I understand that and, of course, I asked you that second question to clarify what was the most significant fact that fixes the time.

Mr. Meyers.

The most significant fact is that my original meeting with Jack was at the Carousel. It could have been 4 years ago.

Mr. Griffin.

Since the time you first met him at the Carousel Club and up until the time President Kennedy was assassinated, give us your best estimate of how many times you saw him ?

Mr. Meyer.

Here again it would be a sheer guess, but I would say 20, 25 times.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you have any business dealings with him ?

Mr. Meyers.

Actual business dealings?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Meyers.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you ever talk business with him?

Mr. Meyers.

His business primarily, not my business.

Mr. Griffin.

What was the nature of these conversations?

Mr. Meyers.

Oh, his problems in trying to become successful, his problems with his competitors.
Why don't I say it this way, Mr. Griffin. I think to a degree he used me as a sounding board as to what action and what means to take to increase his business.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you give us some specific examples of particular things

that he talked with you about and advice that he might have asked you for?

Mr. Meyers.

You mean businesswise?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Meyers.

Well, for example, there were two competitors, there are and were, I should say, two competitors in Dallas named Weinstein. These were two brothers. There were two brothers in Dallas named Abe and Barney Wein-stein who .also ran the same type of operation, should we call them striptease places or strippers or whatever you want to call them, nightclubs if you want to glamorize them, and Jack--well, I am going to get into specifics now with what I think of Jack. Is that all right with you?

Mr. Griffin.

We would like to hear that; yes, sir.

Mr. Meyers.

Jack, to me, always gave me the impression of being--that he always thought he was 'being taken advantage of. He never felt that he had as much of a share of prosperity as anybody else, as many other people. His complaint primarily to me against these Weinsteins was an operation that they