Mr. Waldo.

3 to 5 minutes of questions, Chief Curry stepped forward and said, "That's enough. Take him back."

Mr. Hubert.

Was there any violation of his regulation about crowding and so forth ?

Mr. Waldo.

Not seriously. There was a little sort of press forward, but not seriously.

Mr. Hubert.

I mean, did he indicate that that's why he was ending the interview ?

Mr. Waldo.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, turning finally to November 24, I think you've told us how you got down there, and your statement indicates that you were standing on the outside of the building at the Commerce Street entrance?

Mr. Waldo.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Along with a number of other newsmen, when a Lieutenant Butler invited the press people into the jail; is that correct?

Mr. Waldo.

Yes, sir; with one exception. There was not a number of other newsmen, there were only, as I recall, three of us standing out on that sidewalk at that time.

Mr. Hubert.

You had a press identification on you then?

Mr. Waldo.

Yes, sir; and when Butler, and pardon me .let me put this in--the armored vehicle had by that time been backed into the ramp, and there was some comment among the three of us standing on the sidewalk, the curious fact that the vehicle which was too high to go down the ramp, was being left there, when a smaller armored Vehicle had been brought at the same time and was perked by the curb. Lieutenant Butler stuck his head out around this vehicle and said, "Come on down." There were two motorcycle policemen who were two of the same policemen who had been standing guard duty on the third floor. They had over the period from the 22d through the 23d, they had several shifts of them. They were two of the same, and as I approached one of them in this comparatively narrow space between the column that forms the frame of the ramp and the side of the vehicle where he was standing, he grinned at me and recognized me immediately and said, "How are you this morning? I know you, but I still have to ask you for your credentials." So, I got out my credentials. I had the badge on, but beyond that he required my Department of Public Safety identification.

Mr. Hubert.

That was even after Lieutenant Butler invited you in?

Mr. Waldo.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Had you been seeking to get in prior to that and had been denied?

Mr. Waldo.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

It was just that you had arrived at that time?

Mr. Waldo.

Well, we had arrived some time earlier and had seen the preparations. I had gone upstairs and checked Chief Curry's office and had been told that it would be half to three-quarters of an hour yet before the prisoner would be removed. This was at the time that I arrived over there on Commerce Street from the hotel, and that everybody would be notified before there was any movement, so since it was a pleasant morning, we were standing out on the sidewalk--the three of us.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you told it was going to be by elevator down-into-the

basement and then through the basement ramps out Commerce Street?

Mr. Waldo.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Who told you that, sir?

Mr. Waldo.

As I recall it, it was Lieutenant Butler himself, who was on the third floor at the time I went up, and I would like to for whatever it's worth, add something at this point. Lieutenant Butler was since, oh, probably 2:30 on the afternoon of the 22d of November, the man whom I had sought out on every occasion that I wanted to learn something about developments, whenever I could find him, because he was a man of remarkable equanimity, poise, and very cooperative within the authorization that he had, and the first thing .

Mr. Hubert.

You mean he would give you more news than anybody else?

Mr. Waldo.

He was more able to understand what was wanted and he was always in on, apparently, on high-level information, and if it was for release, he would be the one who would have it and be most willing apparently to give