Mr. Hubert.

whatever time it was, you did not see him talk to anyone except when he was
handing out cards ?

Mr. Waldo.

No, sir; I did not see him myself talk to anyone. I was told a
number of things later by people, fragments of conversation, but of my own
knowledge, I cannot testify to that.

Mr. Hubert.

How do you fix the time that you did see him on the afternoon

of the 23d ?

Mr. Waldo.

Only in fact and in truth by recalling that it was 6 or minutes
before 6, I believe, about 3 to 4 minutes of 6 when Chief Curry made his announcement that Oswald would be transferred to the county jail by 10 a.m. the following morning, and then thinking back on the time lapse, I would say there was roughly a 2-hour time lapse, remembering the things I did in between the two events, which is close.

Mr. Hubert.

So that it would be fair to say that the last time you saw Ruby up on the third floor of the police building on the 23d was around 4 o'clock in the afternoon?

Mr. Waldo.

Well, certainly no later than 5. I saw him--I glimpsed him also apparently passing out cards and giving the same brief line of chatter to several people after myself, and it might have been half an hour afterwards and it might even have been 45 minutes, but no later certainly than 5 p.m.

Mr. Hubert.

And I see that you fixed it by relating it to Chief Curry's announcement and then backing off from that time?

Mr. Waldo.

That's correct, sir. I did look at the clock as soon as we received Chief Curry's announcement to know who would be on my desk of the newspaper to receive it and recall that it was 3 to 4 minutes of 6.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember seeing Ruby at the Jail on Friday afternoon or night? Mr. WALDO. No, sir; I do not. It is stated in there that I did not.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know Ruby at all, sir?

Mr. Waldo.

No

Mr. Hubert.

When did you first meet him or meet the man you now know to be Ruby?

Mr. Waldo.

Well, if it can be called a meeting, it would be at approximately 2 p.m., Sunday, November the 24th when he was brought down from his seventh floor, I believe it's the seventh floor jail cell to homicide offices on the third floor of Dallas Police Headquarters for interrogation and was led down the corridor from the Jail elevator to the office.

Mr. Hubert.

I had reference really to a meeting on the 23d, the day before Saturday--but apparently you don't classify that as a meeting. I think you saw the man that you ultimately identified as Ruby on the third floor or in the police building on Saturday?

Mr. Waldo.

That is correct, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

When did you first see him ?

Mr. Waldo.

I would say 5 or 10 minutes before he came up and gave me a card. I noticed he was passing out cards and saying something to people. There was such bedlam in the corridor of the third floor with the television apparatus that's in there unless someone was less than 10 feet from you, you could not hear what was being said.

Mr. Hubert.

In any case, you observed Ruby about 10 minutes before you had

any further contact with him?

Mr. Waldo.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Was there anything that Called your attention to him especially?

Mr. Waldo.

Only, I might say, a somewhat aggressive manner. I noticed that he was plucking at somebody's sleeve to turn them around, and a few minutes later, seeing him give that man a card, and then a few minutes--2 or 3 minutes later---seeing him moving closer to where I was, giving out another card--as he gave out the card, giving the man a hearty slap on the arm--although I could not catch the words, I could catch the rather strident tone of his voice, and when he came up to me, although he did not behave in as gratuitously familiar a way in the sense of either clutching at my clothing or patting me, there was still a sort of overdone ingratiating manner as he gave out this card and said, and I'll have to paraphrase it--I cannot remember the exact