About the Anti-Defamation League, although I do say I talked to the agents about it, but not in connection with a conversation with Jack. I do admit that the agents and I, in talking about that, they were very kind and they stayed there and they related to me how they had Jewish agents in the FBI, Bob Strauss of Dallas had been an agent, and I mean that they spent a lot of time discussing this matter with me, and I'm sure they had a lot of things on their mind, Mr. Hubert, and they were not sitting down taking notes although I think they did take names down maybe on the back of an envelope or a scratch pad, but I mean, they didn't sit down such as the reporter is doing here this morning and take notes of the things that we were saying. In other words, I don't believe that it's that significant, but I do want the record to be correct, because I don't think that Jack Ruby and I ever discussed the Anti-Defamation League. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Now--"He stated Ruby had also told him he had tried to locate this Weissman through the Post Office Department"--that's correct--"but was not able to do so." Now, I think I've elaborated on what he did attempt to do, but whether he had conversations with the Post Office and I don't know, but he did tell me that he did locate the box and that he did put it under surveillance, so to speak, and told me that he saw lots of mail in the box and that the box was loaded with mail.
Now--"Kaufman stated that Ruby told him he had been to the Dallas Morning News and had raised 'hell' with the ad department for accepting such an ad." I would say that's correct, and he went into great details about this.
"Kaufman stated that from his contacts with Ruby and the civil matters he had handled for him that he is aware that Ruby is quick-tempered," and that is correct, "and that in his opinion Ruby had no assistance or guidance in connection with the shooting of Oswald." I would say that is a correct statement.
I will say Jack not only is quick-tempered, and I tried to explain to these people, and that's the two agents, that Jack was this type of person--he would do things and then come ask you for advice, and I related to them and showed them, Mr. Hubert, that he had been in my office maybe a few days before all this with a little twistboard that he had seen for sale, and he was going to take this twistboard and have the Goodwill Industries make it so they would have a good deal, and they were going to go out and sell twistboards. I mean, he just thought this was a tremendous thing, and I got the twistboard out and showed it to the agents. I still had it in my office at that time. I've given it away since that time. Somebody wanted a twistboard so I let them have it. Now, he had copied, practically without exception, the instructions that someone else had on their twistboard. He had already gone to the expense of having it printed and here he was coming to me to say, "Was this all right?" Now, this is the type of a boy Jack Ruby was. He would do things on impulse and then he would come back and say, like a child, "Daddy, did I do right or did I do wrong?" This is the matter that I tried to convey to them, that he is not only quick-tempered, but his mentality--lack is a-smart boy, but lack a lot of times would want you to give him assurance that he was doing right, and I'll say this--the more I think about his telephone call to me, I think that maybe he would like to say, "Well, Stanley, am I doing right?" I mean--this is the way I 'would interpret it--"Pat me on the back and tell me I'm doing something to help," and unless a person knew him and had talked to him and had been associated with him, you would have to have that relationship before you could have this feeling.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you talk to him or see him after this conversation and until the homicide?

Mr. Kaufman.

No,.sir.

Mr. Hubert.

The conversation lasted, you say, about 15 or 20 minutes?

Mr. Kaufman.

I would say it was extensive it was longer than usually people talk on the telephone. I'm sure you as a lawyer know that there are times when you get bored listening to people on the telephone.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know Louis McWillie at all?

Mr. Kaufman.

Never--I just knew him by reputation. Actually, I don't

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