Mr. Johnston.

State. Our warrants of arrest, for instance, are valid anywhere in the State of Texas.

Mr. Hubert.

Are you elected by the people of the precinct ?

Mr. Johnston.

By the people of the precinct; yes, sir, and that's by the precinct level.

Mr. Hubert.

And that's a geographical area?

Mr. Johnston.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, prior to November 22, 1963, did you know Jack Ruby ?

Mr. Johnston.

I have seen Jack Ruby, I did not know him personally--have never been introduced to him; no, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Where had you seen him ?

Mr. Johnston.

I've seen him in downtown Dallas. I saw him one night in
front of the Vegas Club on Oaklawn. I have seen him around the courthouse.

Mr. Hubert.

People have pointed him out to you ?

Mr. Johnston.

The night at the Vegas Club, an officer said, "That's Jack Ruby." That's all I can tell you there. Like I said, I've never met the. man--I had never met the man until Friday night, November 22, or the early morning of November 23.

Mr. Hubert.

But he was a character apparently that people would point out to a man of your standing, that is to say, as being a character in the Dallas area?

Mr. Johnston.

Yes; this is possible. Like I say, I'm sure that there has been other occasions that I've seen the man. I just can't recall them at this time.

Mr. Hubert.

On the 22d or the 23d, at anytime when you did see him, you recognized the face and of course you recognized the name?

Mr. Johnston.

No, sir; I didn't recognize him as such. To clarify that, as stated in the report that I gave to the FBI--this is the card that Mr. Ruby handed to me after Mr. Oswald had been removed from the police detail room. He handed me this card and introduced himself to me as Jack Ruby. He was present in that room the whole time that Oswald was in the detail room, which was the late night of November 22 and the early morning of November 23, from approximately 11:30 p.m. until maybe 12:15 a.m.

Mr. Hubert.

Was that in the assembly room ?

Mr. Johnston.

Yes, sir; in the detail room or the assembly room of the police department.

Mr. Hubert.

It is also used as the showup room ?

Mr. Johnston.

Yes; it's used as the showup room and the showup screen was right behind where Oswald was standing and Ruby was standing--if this was the actual room, the showup room would be at my back now, which would be the south wall of this room. Oswald was standing in the aisleway here in front of the desk.

Mr. Hubert.

In front of the screen.

Mr. Johnston.

Ruby was in the same row back behind two tables with chairs in front of them. I was standing on the little podium with Mr. Henry Wade, the district attorney of Dallas County, and a couple of the Dallas police officers and I can't at this time recall who they were, but we were standing on the podium part and were about 10 feet from Oswald. Mr. Ruby was, I would say, from 18 to 22 feet out in front of us.

Mr. Hubert.

When did you first notice him there ?

Mr. Johnston.

When he came up and introduced himself to me.

Mr. Hubert.

That was after Oswald had been removed ?

Mr. Johnston.

That was after Oswald had been removed from the room. Chief Curry ordered him removed because the newspaper people ,started milling a little too much, which he told them he was going to do, and he removed him from the room.

Mr. Hubert.

But your thought was and is now that Oswald was in that room for approximately 30 or 40-minutes?

Mr. Johnston.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

You said it was between 11:30 and 12:157

Mr. Johnston.

Yes; it was between 11:30 and 12:15, but I would say that they had Oswald in that room less than 10 minutes.
Everyone was in there and set up. Chief Curry came in and told them