Mr. Griffin.

When you became branch manager of AGVA, you had occasion, I take it, to deal with him on a number of times?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you tell us, try to reconstruct chronologically how your relationship with him as an AGVA representative proceeded.

Mr. Palmer.

Well, it was quite amicable in all instances. The single element that certainly perturbed me most, from the standpoint of being a branch manager of AGVA, was that Jack was reluctant and hesitant to meet all of the obligations of a union house as that is, and it was constantly necessary for me to visit him and prod him.
With the advent of the McClellan investigation, AGVA became quite sensitive to certain practices that Jack and other clubs freely subscribed to, and in the latter months of our association, I had been collecting data that indicated Jack was continuing to violate certain rules of AGVA that could have been awkward for him.

Mr. Griffin.

What were the rules that you felt he was violating?

Mr. Palmer.

Well, AGVA has no jurisdiction over what is called a B-girl or a girl who is primarily in a club to promote consumption of liquor and services. However, they do not want their members, AGVA members to engage in this practice. Jack very frequently made it clear to our members whom he engaged that it was expected of them, and those who were not in great demand found they could stay at his club for a long time if they were to sit down and have a convivial drink with a customer.

Mr. Griffin.

How did you go about collecting this information on it?

Mr. Palmer.

Jack was impulsive and he would rn~ke an instant enemy as quickly as he would win him back as a friend, and it was not difficult to find a girl who had had a slight altercation with him who would sign an affidavit indicating that Jack had demanded that she associate with the customers in the capacity of a B-drinker only.

Mr. Griffin.

Does AGVA have such affidavits, or did they have such affidavits?

Mr. Palmer.

They do not at the present time. I have.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have those with you?

Mr. Palmer.

I don't have them with me. I can get them for you within the hour.

Mr. Griffin.

If you would, I would appreciate that very much. Do you remember right now some of the names of the people who swore out affidavits against him?

Mr. Palmer.

I collected only three, because that was sufficient proof. However, in conversation with all of them, they indicated that this was the truth, but they were hesitant to put it in writing. Little Lynn, I believe, was one of the girls. I don't know her full name. I would have to look it up in the AGVA files. There was an exotic girl from New Orleans.

Mr. Griffin.

Jada?

Mr. Palmer.

Jada.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there any other rules that Jack was violating?

Mr. Palmer.

Not knowingly. He was hesitant in his payment of welfare to AGVA for his personnel. He was not the only one. This is a common shortcoming of most club owners.
His affiliation with the Vegas Club, was an affiliation he should not have been affiliated with, since the club was theoretically in his sister's name, and I had been given to believe that his operation here was separate. It could be a point of contention with AGVA.

Mr. Griffin.

Why shouldn't he have been associated with the Vegas Club, under your rules?

Mr. Palmer.

Well, our rules are that an owner who cannot subscribe but only partially to our union, if his business is all entertainment business, then he must have been either entirely AGVA, or not at all. I am quite sure this was why the Vegas was presented as being in his sister's home.

Mr. Griffin.

From your experience with Jack, were you able to form any impression of the extent of employee turnover that he had?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes.