people were crowding us. They did assign two uniform men to my door. I didn't have to ask for that. Some of the chiefs did that. They could no doubt see what I could see. They assigned two men to my door, and kept the door locked, and we only admitted the officers and people who should come in. Then they supplied some other officers to move the people down the hall so we could get back, because we had to go back and forth to the chief's office or to the elevator.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you aware on Sunday the 24th that there was quite a crowd of people in the basement, which was a part of the transfer route that was being planned?
Captain FRITZ. I hadn't been down there in the basement. I had been, as I told you before, real busy in my office, and we had been continuing our questioning in company with some Federal officers from the Secret Service, and FBI, and at one time the marshal was over there, and some of the postal authorities, trying to finish up our investigation as fast as we could, and I hadn't been down in the basement. But I had been down there either the early morning or the night before, and I had seen all the big lights set up in the basement and in the basement door, so when the chief told me about the transfer, I told him we ought to get rid of the lights and get the people out of the door that would interfere with our getting to the car for the transfer. After I was late getting started the chief came back to my office and asked if we were ready to transfer him, I told him "When the security downstairs was ready, we were ready." And he said, "The lights have been moved back and the people have been moved back in the basement, back of the rail, and the other people have been moved across the street." Which would have given us ample room to get into the car and get rolling with him. Once we had gotten into the car, we would have been all right.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you kept advised as to the plan of transfer on Sunday morning?
Captain FRITZ. On what part of the plan, please?

Mr. Hubert.

The route and the vehicles.
Captain FRITZ. No, sir; I was not until the chief came to my office. I suggested we move him in an unmarked car instead of that money wagon, and the chief agreed with me, but as far as setting up the protection in the basement and getting the money wagon, I had nothing to do with that. I don't know where that arrangement was made.

Mr. Hubert.

Your suggestion in regard to the crowd in the basement was really with reference to the lights and so forth?
Captain FRITZ. The lights and the people, of course. Those people were in our way every time we moved that man from my office to the jail and back. We had to push him and pull him through the crowd.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever make a suggestion that the people, the news media in the basement just be removed altogether so that there would be nobody there?
Captain FRITZ. I didn't handle that. I had nothing to do with the arrangement in the basement. I did ask that they be moved out of our way, and I believe there was a number of officers down there to do that.
I want to say this in fairness to the chief. As we started to leave, he told me that the people were moved across the street, and the other people were back of the railing, and I think he thought they were. I think someone must have changed his order down there. We first called down and they told us everything was all right. One of my officers called on the telephone, before we went down to the jail. I kept my officers back in the jail until I asked two officers outside the jail if the security was good, and they said it was all right. But when we walked out, they climbed over my car and we met the crowd and the officers coming forward.

Mr. Hubert.

Was that before the shooting?
Captain FRITZ. Almost simultaneous. We had already gotten out of the jail door when the shooting happened. We were only a few feet out into the basement.

Mr. Hubert.

As I understand it then, after you came out of the jail door and walked down the corridor to the car, there was a general surge?
Captain FRITZ. Yes.

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