Mr. Herndon.

and, therefore, the examiner can usually have an indication of whether or not this person will respond to a deception based on the examinee's response to that question.

Mr. Specter.

Mr. Herndon, what is the policy of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on the use of the polygraph examination?

Mr. Herndon.

The FBI uses the polygraph technique purely as an investigative aid, in very carefully selected cases.
As I have said before, we feel that the polygraph technique is not sufficiently precise to permit absolute judgments of deception or truth without qualifications. The polygraph technique has a number of limitations which must be considered by the examiner. The instrument, again, I said before, is designed to record under proper stimuli emotional responses in the form of physiological variations which may accompany and indicate deception.

Mr. Specter.

What effect, if any, would there be on a polygraph examination if the subject were a psychotic depressive with respect to mental condition?

Mr. Herndon.

In that particular case, the FBI ordinarily would not render a polygraph examination to any individual in which there was any indication or evidence that he was psychotic.

Mr. Specter.

What validity would a polygraph examination have on a person who was a psychotic depressive with respect to the mental condition?

Mr. Herndon.

The examination would be completely inconclusive or invalid in view of the fact that a psychotic individual is divorced from reality, and the tracings on his polygrams could not be logically interpreted.

Mr. Specter.

Then is it necessary that a person be in touch with reality and understand the nature of the questions and answers in order for a polygraph examination to have any validity?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes, it is.

Mr. Specter.

Did you have occasion to conduct a polygraph examination on Jack Ruby?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes, I did, on July 18, 1964.

Mr. Specter.

And at whose request was that polygraph examination conducted?

Mr. Herndon.

The examination of Jack Ruby was conducted at the specific request of the President's Commission.
It is my understanding that Mr. Ruby specifically requested such a polygraph examination to the Commission in a prior interview he had with the Chief Justice.

Mr. Specter.

Were you present during the course of the entire session when Mr. Ruby was questioned, both before, during and after the actual administration of the polygraph examination?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes, I was.

Mr. Specter.

And before the test was actually administered, did anyone ask Mr. Ruby whether he wished to have a polygraph examination conducted on him?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes. I believe Mr. Ruby was asked that question by the Commission, I am not sure of whether the defense attorney specifically asked him whether or not he wanted to take it, but I know that they were definitely against him taking the polygraph examination.
In my initial discussion with Mr. Ruby, I again also asked him to sign a voluntary waiver of consent to insure that he was freely and voluntarily taking the polygraph examination.

Mr. Specter.

And what was Mr. Ruby's response on the question of whether he wanted to take the polygraph examination?

Mr. Herndon.

He clearly implied that he desired to proceed and take the polygraph examination.

Mr. Specter.

Was it an implication or was it a direct statement on his part that he wanted the examination?

Mr. Herndon.

It was a direct statement, and he signed the waiver of consent.

Mr. Specter.

Where was the polygraph examination conducted?

Mr. Herndon.

The polygraph examination of Jack Ruby was conducted in one of the room in the Dallas county Jail.

Mr. Specter.

Who was present at the time the examination was conducted?

Mr. Herndon.

Present during the examination were Mr. Arlen Specter of the President's Commission, myself, representing the FBI. Special Agent W. James